LOL Thanks Patch. I didn't actually mean to come across as a bitch. I guess although I'm getting better - I'm still nowhere near communicating as well as I want to

You did`nt come across that way at all hun I could just a sense a slight miscommunication in why stooges sometimes don`t work, [ usually when incorrectly done which you and Mattie do agree on ], you are both very in-tune with dogs, I just hope to give a little nudge to help you both be in-tune with each other, I know you could get on very well because you are both on the same side in how to help dogs with positive methods and having that `instinct` to get into their pysche`s, [ you just need to be more confident in your own ability on that score ],

I think it has already been said but my eyes are mixing up words

A challanging dog IMHO is great, it means you have to think outside the box, really get into your dogs mind and build a much stronger bond and become a much better trainer

I am constantly being told (by my friends with border collies no less) that Ben is just 'good' and 'easy'
and in many ways I am so lucky and happy with him

but
He is fearful, non food or toy motivated, shuts down easily

I have had to work hard to find out the things that motivate him and build a bond with him strong enough that he really wants to work with me
I also have to think and realise why he is ignoring me sometimes, he has a wee naked tummy that is v sensative so sometimes he really dosent want to lie down - not being bad or dom - its just sore for him (and how did I cry when I realised that he had been doing it for 1/2 an hour then he just had to TELL me that he didnt want to lie down any more)

You dog sounds unique and lovely - and you are working hard
Find out what his motivations are
Also if he is not a sniffer the lurcher bit of him might want sight games - where he has to look for things
what about chasing toys??
As people have been saying - and you have been trying
work on trick/ obedience/ anything training (its all the same to a dog - walking to heel, flyball, turning in circles)
It will make your bond stronger
But tricks take time to sink in - for a turn in a circle in one sesh 1st time trying that I would be more than happy with a few steps round - TBH I would have been happy with a head turn and one step and I would have rewarded it like crazy and thrown a party - different dogs learn at different rates
- my friends 'difficult collies' the 10 week old pup was sitting, lie down and roll over within 3 days (with a lure) my 'easy to train' dog took 3 weeks to get a down and a furhter 6 weeks to get a roll over - but once he had got it he had got it

the offering different behaviours from what you asked for just means that the dog does not 100% understand what you are asking for - or of course not comfy doing it - sounds like he is confused but doing his best to try and please you - thats a good start
Just make training fun and short, leave them on something they can do well and praise like mad anything in the direction you want, and finish with the thing your dog loves most in the world - food, game, walk , snuggle with you - anything

The playing with other dogs really just sounds like bad socilisation when he was wee
He is sending out mixed messages, all bouncy and pup like wanting to play and then trying to get the paw over the back and stuff
Most dogs by 6 months have started to be taught some manners by older dogs - your dog seems to have missed that
But they can be so stupid to what other dogs are saying, only recently has my wee boy stopped trying to jump in the face of snarling dogs!!

HTH

I'm not sure I can offer more advice, there is some great advice on this thread if you read it through again... But I can offer my sympathy, I read your original post and I remembered being in exactly your shoes about 5 or so years ago...

Let me tell you about Jackjack. I rescued him about 6 years ago, he was nervous, aggressive, neurotic and stubborn. I didn't know what had happened to him, but I know that if he was any larger he would have been PTS for his behaviour. He was actually destined to be PTS when the dog warden asked me to take him on and see what I could do with him, to se if I could fix him enough so that he could be re-homed. He broke my heart. Some days he'd be an angel, then the next he was the devil incarnate. For 6 years I tried everything. Then it was all gone. Jackjack left us last year. He became so ill, so quickly, one day he was fine, the next a little off colour and the next he was gone.

I never did finish his training, I never 'fixed him'. He was never perfect. He never stopped attacking the front door when people arrived, he never stopped becoming crazy scared if you tried to pass things over his head, he never stopped hiding and shivering if you said sit or lie down (he must have had some bad training experiences) I was able to get him to sit and lie down, but I couldn't use my voice at all. I had to teach him hand signals. He must have been shouted at in the past... Some days I would be so angry at him for still being broken, I could barely look at him, some days I just wanted to cry. I paid a fortune in dog trainers, even got him on a course of T touch, (but he bit her and wouldn't let her touch him). I had a dog whisperer tell me he was just mentally scarred and there was no help for him, but still I persevered.

All I can say is... I miss him so much. I miss his crazy and I even miss his trouble and the frustrating training and the only thing I regret now looking back is not that I failed to train him, but that I failed to enjoy him enough. I wasted time trying to make him perfect when I should have just been loving him just as he was... He was little and broken, but he was my little broken man and I can never ever get that time back again.

You are clearly trying very hard with your scatty lurcher and you will make some progress and as you say yourself ultimately you love her and though it would be lovely to have a perfect trained collie, you have what you have and you love her no matter what. Try to enjoy her and love her and let her be what she will be. You may not have a perfect dog, but you have a special dog. Some things will fix in time, some wont. Don't give up on training her, but remember, we don't have dogs forever,, we only borrow them They have such a short time with us and then...

You'll miss the crazy.



My crazy mad, horrid little Jackjack... Run free little man, go bite heaven's postman and tear up all God's mail!

Mattie please do stay!
You can only add to what is a great forum

Hello Wysiwyg

Hallo! back atcha (as they say!!)

Yes of course.

We all do at the end of the day
t's not easy finding a good trainer. The other option is to travel to a trainer - I've spent way too much money travelling to workshops, seminars etc but have learnt so much from the experts. I've not always agreed with them but have always come away with something to add to the training toolbox

I'd just like to add that when I say I'll go where my opinions take me I am joking about the fact that we all end up doing what we decide, even if we are using someone else's advice, we are deciding to use it. I wasn't saying I wasn't listening to what you said, as someone seemed to think I was discounting it and just ignoring it for my own idea.

Sorry that was me... and yes I did read it that way.

As I've already said, I hope you get it sorted and best of luck with it, please keep us updated.

I'm bogging off now as I've remembered why I don't contribue to the serious threads very often!