Adam, in my world, the first rule of understanding dogs is:
body language = behaviour.

I know you know this.

I also know that you can tell body language signs when you see them, and you see them the same as any other dog trainer.

But just as was the case with your own pet dog videos, you are just being disingenuous in your statements,

And this is because for you to acknowledge what you are seeing would be to say that their are some issues, worthy of your consideration, surrounding the body language clues that dogs give out as to how they feel when being trained with aversives.

Which you cannot do, as you have boxed yourself into an uncompromising corner.
You arent the only uncompromising inflesible person on here whom lacks the ability to self examine.....you have the makings of a good trainer, as it goes, if only you developed the skill to evolve, just as any dog trainer or human being should do.

Your responses to these body language posts are arent really much to do with dog psychology, but are plenty to do with human psychology.

Ditto

You have echoed my thoughts on this one

I do understand body labguage. Just not the incorrect idea of it many spout.

Btw thanks for the backhand compliment Kruse

Adam

... such as?

Yet again, it's "I'm right and you're all wrong". Adam in his own little world!

I don't know if specifically DOG behaviour was taught in your degree course Adam, but if it was then either it was so outdated as to be useless, or you must have got right up your lecturer's nose.

Have you ever thought, Adam, that when you think everyone else is wrong and you are the only one who is right that maybe, just maybe .................

BTW, I didn't see Kruse's post as a backhanded compliment. It seemed a pretty reasonable precis based on your posts.

I'd add that I think you have become so entrenched with the back-slapping brigade whose egos are far greater than their dog training prowess that you aren't willing to look further afield to widen your understanding

From what I can gather, you have only been using physical aversives for around 12 months and have been training for a lot longer. However, you now decry the very methods that you have intimated that you, yourself used for many years? I can sorta understand the attraction of quick-fix as it does boost the ego, but what I can't understand is how you can see how you are achieving that fix and the effects it's having on the dogs you work with (if, indeed, Jacca is typical) and don't or won't take notice and try to change things around

Success, reliable success, is achievable for all sorts of problems, but you have to be able to read the dogs and the people you are working with and amend and adjust your techniques to suit. There are so many techniques that fall under the remit of 'reward-based' training that you learn to find the one that fits. To do that, however, takes a 'want' to do it with the best interests of both the dog and owner you are working with first and foremost in your mind.

You talk about balanced training. To me, balanced training is adjusting techniques, not tools

That dogs that aren't desperate to get the treat are in some way unhappy.

Adam

how is it with (at a guess) at least five? experienced dog trainers and umpteen experienced dog owners, participating in this thread YOU are the only one who fails to see the TRUTH in what those dogs are saying, which leaves you two options:
1. you're a crap trainer, dont understand dogs and have NO business calling yourself a dog trainer
2. you Do understand it as you say BUT your too pigheaded and arrogant to admit it when you are WRONG!!

so which is it door number 1, or door number 2?

I've been using e collars for years, I dunno were you got 12 months from lol.

I used aversives before that of course, lead corrections ect.

I have (with some dogs) used exclusively reward based methods.

I still use a lot of positive training.

My current techniques are the result of me training and study dogs for the last 12 yrs.

Re your right v wrong and general opinion comment. The only opinion that matters to me is the dogs.

Btw how stupid would quick fixes be to someone charging by the hour lol.

Adam

Wow how threatened by me are you! Its really amazing.

Adam