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suew
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Location: london uk
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21-02-2012, 04:10 PM

Dog nips when I leave home

Toffee, our pomeranian has developed what could become a serious problem. She has never liked either of us leaving the house ( Flo the yorkie just gives us the sad eyed look but is quite calm about it), and started to get more and more vocal every time we went anywhere near the front door. This is worse with me that with my husband. I cannot even go to get something from the car without her "screeching" almost hysterically as I reach for my keys, put on my shoes etc. There is a babygate between the hall and the front door, (we have grandchildren) and if she even hears that opening, she runs from where ever she is assuiming I must be leaving the house. She then started "poking" me in the back of the calf, as if she were trying to herd me back each time I got ready to go out, and couple of times, I thought she had given me a slight nip, but wasn't sure (poms have a pointed muzzle, so not always easy to tell). However, this morning, as I walked towards the door, (leaving for work at my usual time), she jumped up barking and screeching, and nipped me harder, on the thigh, enough to leave two small bruises, not skin broken, but it hurt just the same. I was so shocked that i shouted at her that she was a bad girl, and then carried on through the babygate, and ignored her as I closed the front door. I have tried the usual not giving clues I am going out, but have to leave for work at the same time each day. She also does this if I go out when she is NOT expecting it , when my husband is home, he keeps her in a different room with him so she cannot see me leave, but still she is barking hysterically. I try giving no clues whatsover, but as soon as I walk towards the door, she almost chases after me to try and stop me leaving. I am seriously concerned that she has now progressed to harder biting, she may be tiny, but the teeth are still sharp! She is a very loving dog, who always seems to aim to please otherwise, and hates being told off for anything (she will look miserable and curl up into a ball). If she thinks either of us have hurt ourselves , she runs up to see what is wrong, so she is not in the least agressive. I know it is fear biting, I know she must be afraid I am leaving and she doesnt want me to go. How do I get her to accept it is OK for me to go out, and to stop the biting/nipping getting any worse? She is three years old, and has not done the "herding, nipping" thing until the last few months. The hysterical barking has always been present. I am sure I must be doing something daft, or NOT doing something, I just need to know what it is!! Flo doesnt mind at all when we go out, she just goes off to her "igloo den" with a resigned sigh! I ought to add I am only ever out for a maximum of four hours, and my husband pops in during that time also.
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Tass
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21-02-2012, 06:37 PM
I have known a number of dogs, usually small terriers, do this when they dislike people leaving, I see it as a variation of a separation anxiety whereby they pre empt that emotional state by aiming to prevent it occurring when even it they fail the attempt provides some frustration/tension relief.

Essentially you need to slowly and gradually de-sensitise to leaving cues, as with other separation-related problems, teach a reliable "sit" or "mat" command (the dog cannot comply and simultaneously be rushing at you and biting) and to reward for the "mat" command, initially outside the problem situations, and to reward for any calm associated with minimal potential leaving cues. You can then gradually build up from that point. You may find it helpful to start training with Toffee on lead.

Ideally it would have been better to have addressed the screaming before Toffee escalated it to this point, although at this point that is now more for the benefit of anyone else reading this in a similar position.

Unfortunately most behavioural problems tend to be escalated over time by the dog with increased practice and confidence in that strategy, if not effectively addressed.

Impulse control exercises (leave, stay, wait, heel, etc) could also be helpful background training if Toffee tends to be generally reactive and/or excitable
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Wild Rose
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21-02-2012, 11:08 PM
Put both dogs on NILIF (nothing in life is free). Dogs must stay off furniture and beds. They can sleep next to your bed, not on it, use a crate if necessary. No treats except as rewards for a trick or for training. Dogs must sit nicely (or lie down or high five,,,) before getting dinner or being let outside. Remove all toys and only dole them out one at a time, and only after a trick. When you get home, ignore both dogs until they give up pestering you, then ignore some more.

Both dogs should go for a walk every day, before you leave for work if possible.

I know this sounds mean, but it really helps the dogs feel more secure. I also like Tass's reply and I think you should do that as well.
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Ben Mcfuzzylugs
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22-02-2012, 12:58 AM
Originally Posted by Tass View Post
I have known a number of dogs, usually small terriers, do this when they dislike people leaving, I see it as a variation of a separation anxiety whereby they pre empt that emotional state by aiming to prevent it occurring when even it they fail the attempt provides some frustration/tension relief.

Essentially you need to slowly and gradually de-sensitise to leaving cues, as with other separation-related problems, teach a reliable "sit" or "mat" command (the dog cannot comply and simultaneously be rushing at you and biting) and to reward for the "mat" command, initially outside the problem situations, and to reward for any calm associated with minimal potential leaving cues. You can then gradually build up from that point. You may find it helpful to start training with Toffee on lead.

Ideally it would have been better to have addressed the screaming before Toffee escalated it to this point, although at this point that is now more for the benefit of anyone else reading this in a similar position.

Unfortunately most behavioural problems tend to be escalated over time by the dog with increased practice and confidence in that strategy, if not effectively addressed.

Impulse control exercises (leave, stay, wait, heel, etc) could also be helpful background training if Toffee tends to be generally reactive and/or excitable
Great advice I think do everything you can to teach her that you going out is not a big deal or it is something nice

Originally Posted by Wild Rose View Post
Put both dogs on NILIF (nothing in life is free). Dogs must stay off furniture and beds. They can sleep next to your bed, not on it, use a crate if necessary. No treats except as rewards for a trick or for training. Dogs must sit nicely (or lie down or high five,,,) before getting dinner or being let outside. Remove all toys and only dole them out one at a time, and only after a trick. When you get home, ignore both dogs until they give up pestering you, then ignore some more.

Both dogs should go for a walk every day, before you leave for work if possible.

I know this sounds mean, but it really helps the dogs feel more secure. I also like Tass's reply and I think you should do that as well.
Rules and structure can help but it is most important to address the actual issue
I believe if an owner is happy with their dog being on the sofa/bed/whatever then it dosent effect the behaviour IF the dog is well behaived on there and moves when asked
I much prefer to work to address the actual problems NILIF often works but for different reasons imo - and it can be quite depressing for the owner to be sticking to so many rules that removes their fun in dog ownership
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Wysiwyg
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22-02-2012, 07:24 AM
I agree with Tass and Ben in that it is almost certainly related to a separation anxiety problem and best treated as such, as you need to get to the root of the actual problem, and address that.

It may be worth recording (video) your dog when you go out, as it may be that there is some obvious problem causing your dog's anxiety when you go out. For example, some dogs can be very afraid of noises, even in the house, when the owner is not present. My own dog was afraid of noises from the flat upstairs to me, yet was fine when I was with him.

(I remember years ago when I was reading a dog mag, a Japanese student of behaviourist Peter Neville was having the same problem with his BSD. It was a fascinating article).

You may find, if you are lucky, that a thoroughly watched video can give some clues, although it may not! But worth giving it a go, just in case
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BeagleBella
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22-02-2012, 01:39 PM
I had the same problem, admittedly not to the extent you have, but Bella would howl for ages, and refuse to go in her crate / pen when she knew I was leaving (I would pick up the keys, my bag, coat on etc).

What I do now, is have everything ready by my porch. I tell Bella to go in her bed, close her in the pen, say "I'll see you soon" and then go. I don't look back. Just head straight for the door. Then when I get in the porch, I put my coat / shoes on with my bag and pick up my keys. My porch is separate so she can't see me doing this. If you could move her bed, so she can't see you leave through the front door??

I have felt it helps. That way, the exit is swift and quick.

If its gone to far, you may need to get someone in to help with separation anxiety?

Hope you get on okay, this little doggie just loves you so much and doesn't want you to leave xxxx
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Wysiwyg
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23-02-2012, 07:30 AM
Yes, it can literally be that the dog is very fixed on the owner or on one particular person. Or it may be upset at being left alone (so not upset about one particular person leaving, but upset about being left generally).

Or it can be fear of something that occurs during owner absence, which is sometimes noise related.

This is why it's often good to get professional reputable help in such situations, because it is hard to work on unless the cause is established
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suew
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23-02-2012, 07:22 PM
Thanks everyone, I was so upset that she had done it as I knew it meant she was upset that I was going out! She DOES have a seperation anxiety problem, as do a lot of rescue dogs, but isn't TOO bad once we are out as she has Flo, whom she snuggles into. She has lots of nylabones, and tends to chew them a lot when she is anxious, so I always make sure they are out of the dog toybox, all ready! Noise, ah, definately, as soon as I read that, I thought "that's it". She is very very noise sensitive. When we are at home, the slightest noise "out of the ordinary" and she is ears pricked, ready to do the shrill "woo woo woo" pomeranian bark. We have to stop her, as left to her own devices, she immediatley jumps up (even if apparently asleep) and runs towards the perceived noise, usually the hall, and carries on with the "woo woo woo" alarm bark, whilst anxiously looking back at us, and running back and forth. Flo occasionaly joins in if she thinks it is genuine (!) but mostly, ignores her. I dont know whether Toffee thinks she is protcting us, or if she wanting us to rush to the dangerous noise, and protect her, have never worked that one out.
She has been better at my going the last couple of days, as I have had to put my "stern" voice on. Both dogs respond instantly to a stern "Stop!", and this command works for just about everything, from moving, to whatever the dog is doing at that moment (eating, walking, barking, etc ). I can then manage to get the other side of the baby gate, and then out of nip reach, put my shoes and coat on, if she starts to bark or screech, I use the stop word again.
To be honest, I am a big softy with both my girls, and recognise that I have probably let Toffee down by not being firm enough with her over this issue before. I now realise, she NEEDS me to be more firm, she is not in charge!. I have for the first time, made her sit for her dinner, not do a pom impression of riverdance with excitement while I prepare it (hugely lovely and entertaining, but not good for her I suspect) She IS a very excitable, happy doggy, to quote our vet " To a dog, life's a party", and this certainly applies to Toffee. Flo is far more serious, and I think a calming influence on her. Toffee has always had seperation anxiety issues, but I think it is fear based, as in she is scared of what may happen if we are not at home. To be fair to her, she has had an awful time of it in the past, and i can understand where she is coming from in that respect. We just need to work on calming her somehow. I do leave the radio on while we are out (on a talk station) to help drown out any noises, but she does have very sharp hearing. Any other suggestions to deal with seperation anxiety would be most appreciated. She is a lovely dog, and I would dearly like to help her to be less anxious when we are not at home.
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Wysiwyg
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24-02-2012, 09:59 AM
There are some quite good books out there re. this subject, one is by Nicole Wilde and another is by Pat McConnell

You may find if you are very lucky that by tiring her out, using stuffed kongs for her to get into, doing your best to blank out noises (and maybe visual stimuli?) and maybe a DAP diffuser (I think they are now called adaptil) that may be just enough to help her to cope.

If you got her from a good rescue, some have reputable behaviourists attached, but do be careful as some of the rescues don't always use reputable people.

Hth and lotsa luck.

Wys
x
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Wild Rose
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26-02-2012, 11:01 PM
Keeping SA dogs off furniture actually works quite well. I hardly think keeping dogs off furniture and asking for a sit is going to ruin the dog-owner relationship. It gives structure to the dog's environment and makes her feel that someone is in control. I always keep new foster dogs off the furniture until they have been with us long enough to get comfortable and I can assess them. All dogs will learn "off" and most of them will earn the right to sleep on furniture. Toffee may "earn" the privilege of being on the furniture- after she feels secure enough to stop her nipping behavior.
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