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Bilclarie
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Location: France
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28-03-2008, 10:59 AM
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
Hi Mo,

Well having owned over 35 Dobes myself in the last 30 past years as I only rescue them, plus they have being a part of my family all my life as my Dad had one before I was born, this is what I think about Merlin from my 49 years experience with dobes.

Firstly I am going to split my reply into two sections, as I neither wish to offend you or start a big debate on this thread, so I will only deal with the good areas in the top half.

The good bits:

He has a great blunt wedge and that the upper part of his head is flat and is free from wrinkles, the top of his skull is flat, and that his nose is a solid black, and his eyes are a nice almond shape and not to far set back.

It looks like he has a good set of teeth, but his lower jaw looks very slightly undershot, but that could just be the photo.

His shoulder blade and upper arms seem to meet at a good angle and he has a good top line. He has a nice deep and broad fore chest, but his costal arch doesn't seem to have as much definition in it as I would like. Also his coat looks very patchy in colour and he has a good weight on him.

Now for what I really don't like:


I absolutely hate the fact that his ears have been cropped and that either you or the breeder had put him through all that totally unnecessary pain at the age of between 7-10 weeks. Why would anyone put their puppy through a major operation and then once the stitches have been removed have their ears taped in a wire rack until the muscles and cartilage of the ears has healed enough to stand on their own? And all for vanity (yours not his). It's an absolutely pointless procedure and is of no benefit to the dog what so ever.

Colin
Hi Colin

Thankyou for your answer, Merlin mouth is fine no probelems with anypart of it if it weren't as it should be he wouldn't have got an excellent 1 for his overall confirmation, the French are really hot on there critiques if there had been anything wrong he would have been given Tre's Bon (very good) instead of excellent, they score your dog 1 to 4, 1 being the best and 4 well I'll leave that up to your imagination

His coat is fine to may just be the photo he has a good thick coat close laying as it should be with no undercoat.
a couple more pic's taken at different times of the year so light will be different in both, but I can assure you his coat if fine, as for the cropping yes I understand what people are saying but like it or not it is / was part of the breed standard, tails are docked and dew claws are left on I could go on and tell you about the removel of dew claws but I won't as I don't want to go further off topic, I didn't breed Merlin so the cropping was done by his breeder's vet under general anisthetic, I am more than happy to answer question on my dog's or breed if anyone wants to start a thread on the issuse's that have been raised.

Regards Mo xx



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Borderdawn
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28-03-2008, 12:18 PM
I can see where his markings are a bit smudgy there Mo. He really is a classy Dobermann, you should be very proud of him, Id love to own him, he typifies the breed for me.
Dawn.
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Colin
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28-03-2008, 01:16 PM
Hi Mo,

As I said before I didn't wish to offend you in anyway.

I can now see from the top photo that his coats looks alot better than I thought, but it's still a bit patchy.

I'm still not a 100% convinced about his mouth, but you know him better than I do.

Concerning the French system. I do agree with you that it is alot better than our one, but a few years ago I went to a couple of shows in Paris, but I have to say that some of the judging like in this country I'm afraid is not all it's cracked up to be.

I went to one show where this particular judge awarded a dog top marks and this other judge came storming over and they had a giant argument about it, and you know how flamboyant and expressive the French can be? Anyway the outcome was that the final decision got reversed, why I have no idea as I don't speak very good French, but you should of heard them going on at each other.

Colin
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Carole
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28-03-2008, 02:27 PM
Off topic posts have been moved to this thread
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zoeybeau1
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28-03-2008, 03:15 PM
He is a very showy doberman and I think he has got to be the best I have seen for a long time.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
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Borderdawn
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28-03-2008, 03:15 PM
Originally Posted by Colin View Post
Hi Mo,

As I said before I didn't wish to offend you in anyway.

I can now see from the top photo that his coats looks alot better than I thought, but it's still a bit patchy.

I'm still not a 100% convinced about his mouth, but you know him better than I do.

Concerning the French system. I do agree with you that it is alot better than our one, but a few years ago I went to a couple of shows in Paris, but I have to say that some of the judging like in this country I'm afraid is not all it's cracked up to be.

I went to one show where this particular judge awarded a dog top marks and this other judge came storming over and they had a giant argument about it, and you know how flamboyant and expressive the French can be? Anyway the outcome was that the final decision got reversed, why I have no idea as I don't speak very good French, but you should of heard them going on at each other.

Colin
Hi Colin. Black dogs are notoriously difficult to photograph, I would think its the light on the dogs coat and nothing more.

I am pretty certain there is nothing wrong with his mouth, I expect you are not used to seeing a good correct underjaw as most English bred Dobes lack this and give the wrong shape to the head. Here are a few pics to try and explain what I mean.

These three heads IMO are excellent head (regardless of ears!)







Note the strong muzzle, the good deep underjaw all the dogs have giving the desired "blunt wedge" shaped head.

This Dog IMO has a very poor head. Big round eyes, no fill underneath them, poor snipey, thin muzzle and no underjaw, it cannot give the impression of a blunt wedge, it gives the impression of a triangle, a more or less pointed end.


We realised in this country around 10 or more years ago that the Dobermann head in this country had gone, it was the reason for importing continental stock, that and we had lost substance aswell producing weak fine boned animals. We also (and still do) have problems with missing teeth, where as on the continent ALL dogs MUST have a correct bite and a FULL set of teeth to be passed fit for breeding. Breeding Dogs in Germany etc.. is far stricter, thus ensuring a better quality animal in mind and body.
Dawn.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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28-03-2008, 03:19 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn View Post
Hi Colin. Black dogs are notoriously difficult to photograph, I would think its the light on the dogs coat and nothing more.

I am pretty certain there is nothing wrong with his mouth, I expect you are not used to seeing a good correct underjaw as most English bred Dobes lack this and give the wrong shape to the head. Here are a few pics to try and explain what I mean.

These three heads IMO are excellent head (regardless of ears!)













Note the strong muzzle, the good deep underjaw all the dogs have giving the desired "blunt wedge" shaped head.

This Dog IMO has a very poor head. Big round eyes, no fill underneath them, poor snipey, thin muzzle and no underjaw, it cannot give the impression of a blunt wedge, it gives the impression of a triangle, a more or less pointed end.




We realised in this country around 10 or more years ago that the Dobermann head in this country had gone, it was the reason for importing continental stock, that and we had lost substance aswell producing weak fine boned animals. We also (and still do) have problems with missing teeth, where as on the continent ALL dogs MUST have a correct bite and a FULL set of teeth to be passed fit for breeding. Breeding Dogs in Germany etc.. is far stricter, thus ensuring a better quality animal in mind and body.
Dawn.
That was really helpful in seeing the difference between a strong jaw and a weak jaw, I know what you mean now.

If only we had such strict breeding rules in the UK!
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zoeybeau1
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28-03-2008, 03:21 PM
Yep Rip's if only.
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Ripsnorterthe2nd
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28-03-2008, 03:29 PM
Originally Posted by zoeybeau1 View Post
Yep Rip's if only.
Yeah I know, but I can dream!
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Shona
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28-03-2008, 03:35 PM
Originally Posted by fluffybunnyfeet View Post
I am going to be a very bad boy here but.......

Why has it been butchered? and its undershot, eyes are too round and if its a euro dog likely too tall but judges seem to skim over this point.

Hate docked dobes and ear cropping is just plain bloodly cruel.
I thought he looked a tad undershot too, apart from that a very nice dog
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