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rune
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rune is offline  
Location: cornwall uk
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 7,132
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27-11-2010, 04:10 PM
Just checked---it says

What kind of working dogs can be docked?
Any spaniel, terrier, hunt point retrieve breed or their crosses can be docked
(as long as the necessary evidence indicating that they are likely to work
is produced).
What kind of evidence do I need to prove that my dog will work in order
to have it docked?
The puppy must be presented with the dam, and a statement provided by the
owner (or the owner’s representative) that the dog is intended to work in one of
the specified areas. Additional evidence related to the particular type of work the
dog will perform is also required. This is detailed in the regulations.

So in theory shouldn't be sold as pets.

rune
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Jackie
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27-11-2010, 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by JoedeeUK View Post
It's not the KC it's DEFRA, the law is that legally docked dogs born after the docking ban came into force cannot be compete at events where the public has to pay for admission.Lots of the other shows charge for the car park & not for admission to get round the DEFRA ban & it is within the KC rules for legally docked dogs to be shown.

Crufts could not manage without the public admission moneyUnder Scottish Law(not the Scottish KC)no dog docked after the date the law changed can compete even if there is no admission fee

Yes it, could, if it was at a venue that did not charge admission fees!


Originally Posted by rune View Post
Just checked---it says

What kind of working dogs can be docked?
Any spaniel, terrier, hunt point retrieve breed or their crosses can be docked
(as long as the necessary evidence indicating that they are likely to work
is produced).
What kind of evidence do I need to prove that my dog will work in order
to have it docked?
The puppy must be presented with the dam, and a statement provided by the
owner (or the owner’s representative) that the dog is intended to work in one of
the specified areas. Additional evidence related to the particular type of work the
dog will perform is also required. This is detailed in the regulations.

So in theory shouldn't be sold as pets.

rune
Theory is one thing, reality is another.
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Borderdawn
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27-11-2010, 04:20 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
It is only going to happen if dogs work and show----very rarely does that happen.

I think it is illegal to sell the dog docked unless it is going to be worked?

rune
Theoretically, but the problem is, out of a litter how do you know which dogs will make workers? Impossible to know.
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Kicks
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27-11-2010, 04:24 PM
The way I understood it was that if the majority of the litter is expected to be sold to working homes with possibly one or two going to pet homes the entire litter would be docked. Not many people would select which puppy out of a litter they want until the pup's are older.

So theoretically yes, a docked dog can legally be sold as a pet. The breeder has to prove the dog is likely to work not swear on oath that the dog will work. Not all dogs born from a working line will make the grade. Like our Dillan for example (who isn't docked but could have been).
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rune
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27-11-2010, 04:43 PM
Be simpler to just ban it totally.

Shame they didn't. Still half a loaf is better than no bread.

rune
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morganstar
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27-11-2010, 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
It is acceptable and legal to dock working dogs.

Don't understand why you thought it wasn't?

It is NOT acceptable to dock dogs to show them as the KC don't consider that to be work.

rune
So what about the people who work and show the same dog!
Thats what we're really arguing over. I have a pup I sold to Wales to work at 10 months she was legal docked after an horrific injury caused when she got it caught in braken during beating. We had arranged to borrow her back at local shows to but really no point now as most of them have paying public so we cant show her.
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rune
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27-11-2010, 07:25 PM
You can show various other breeds with a vets letter----why is she any different? I know a few gordons shown with half tails or less.

It isn't the KC---its the law!

There are laws I don't like but unfortunately thats life!

rune
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Rolosmum
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27-11-2010, 07:30 PM
Originally Posted by Kicks View Post
The way I understood it was that if the majority of the litter is expected to be sold to working homes with possibly one or two going to pet homes the entire litter would be docked. Not many people would select which puppy out of a litter they want until the pup's are older.

So theoretically yes, a docked dog can legally be sold as a pet. The breeder has to prove the dog is likely to work not swear on oath that the dog will work. Not all dogs born from a working line will make the grade. Like our Dillan for example (who isn't docked but could have been).
Rolo came from a litter that were all docked as the breeder was keeping two from the litter for his work, and training on some to sell to other working landowners and a couple or so spare etc were sold to a suitable buyer whether that be working or pet, we were one of two that bought from his litter of eight to have as pets, we had a choice of 5, he chose his likely two, but was only just making his mind up for sure in the few days around when we got Rolo at 9 1/2 weeks, so yes they were all docked at a week old as he could not decide before.

So we have all the paperwork to prove he was legally docked and we may work him through a friend just sometimes, but it will be for his enjoyment as ultimately he is our pet.

I will never ever show him, not got the time with two kids playing football, working from home and keeping up the amount of exercise he has, it is not my thing to show, but i wouldnt mind seeing a docked dog. As long as it is for working purposes like Rolo that they came to be docked then as i have experience of a dog that was hours from death due to gangrene in a tail injury that was awful.
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morganstar
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27-11-2010, 07:32 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
You can show various other breeds with a vets letter----why is she any different? I know a few gordons shown with half tails or less.

It isn't the KC---its the law!

There are laws I don't like but unfortunately thats life!

rune
You can't show a dog docked after April 2007 where the public pay an entry fee, regardless of the breed and no amount of vets letters change this. We know it's the law but laws have been changed before now, this one doesnt make sense at all.
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Spacecat
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27-11-2010, 07:42 PM
When shopping for my springer pup, was difficult to find pups that hadn't been docked. It seems the norm, and the homes they're going to doesn't even come into the breeders equation imo. I was looking for a family dog, and felt strongly that I didn't need or want my pup to have a docked tail, but it took a while (and a fair few miles) to find one!
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