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Krusewalker
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29-07-2010, 05:39 PM
Originally Posted by wilbar View Post
All I meant was that despite the overwhelming majority here disagreeing with his his views & standards on dog training, he still comes back for more! If it were me that had received such a lot of criticism, or had such a wealth of evidence to contradict my views, I think I'd try to keep a low profile for a bit!! I'd also like to think that I'm open-minded enough to try to understand why everyone disagreed with me. But in AP's case, he just doesn't seem to care . Hence my comment about getting commission from ecollar manufacturers ~ I couldn' think of any other reason that AP keeps coming back for more criticism! Does he find this criticism rewarding in some way? Are we positively reinforcing him somehow?
I too have also lived by the maxim that if enough reasonable people tell my action is erroneous, then the innate issues aside, i would think that the statistical likelihood of several unrelated people saying the same without it having some kernel of truth to it must be unlikely.

To my mind, its quite evident that threads centred around Adam would only be a boon to his status and business of an Ecollar trainer.

He must be grinning to himself.

He can now turn around and say if all these reward/treat/whatever based trainers are so good and so confident that their method is better than mine, then why do they feel the need to get sooo defensive and personal about it then.
He could then say I dont feel the need to reply or acknowledge such responses to me, as Im pretty confident in my belief that E training is better.

And then he can turn around and show threads on dogsey as an example to any unsuspecting less informed pet dog owners, whom would quite naturally see all the stick etc and be quite possibly sold on this propoganda line.

TBH, it does concern me that this opportunity is made available to AP, or any other ecollar trainer.

It's interesting that my history in rescue was bought up.
When i started in rescue i also acted on my ethical outrage too.
It was working in rescue that actuallly taught me that it is better to channel such instincts thru constructive dialogue and tempered manner, as animal welfare and the continued prospering existence of the centre depended upon it.
Its as philosophy i continue thru dog training.
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Lotsadogs
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29-07-2010, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
Its as philosophy i continue thru dog training.
And it is a good philosophy and one worth continuing. As are all your points.
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rune
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29-07-2010, 06:22 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
I too have also lived by the maxim that if enough reasonable people tell my action is erroneous, then the innate issues aside, i would think that the statistical likelihood of several unrelated people saying the same without it having some kernel of truth to it must be unlikely.

To my mind, its quite evident that threads centred around Adam would only be a boon to his status and business of an Ecollar trainer.

He must be grinning to himself.

He can now turn around and say if all these reward/treat/whatever based trainers are so good and so confident that their method is better than mine, then why do they feel the need to get sooo defensive and personal about it then.
He could then say I dont feel the need to reply or acknowledge such responses to me, as Im pretty confident in my belief that E training is better.

And then he can turn around and show threads on dogsey as an example to any unsuspecting less informed pet dog owners, whom would quite naturally see all the stick etc and be quite possibly sold on this propoganda line.

TBH, it does concern me that this opportunity is made available to AP, or any other ecollar trainer.

It's interesting that my history in rescue was bought up.
When i started in rescue i also acted on my ethical outrage too.
It was working in rescue that actuallly taught me that it is better to channel such instincts thru constructive dialogue and tempered manner, as animal welfare and the continued prospering existence of the centre depended upon it.
Its as philosophy i continue thru dog training.
So why feed Denis (and uncle lou) on DC?

rune
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Lotsadogs
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29-07-2010, 06:24 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
So why feed Denis (and uncle lou) on DC?

rune
Why indeed. outathere!
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Krusewalker
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29-07-2010, 06:30 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
So why feed Denis (and uncle lou) on DC?

rune
but i havent?
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rune
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29-07-2010, 07:05 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
but i havent?
Well you ain't ignoring them----so IMO that is feeding them.

rune
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mishflynn
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29-07-2010, 08:20 PM
IF they didnt hurt they wouldnt work. END OF!!!!!
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Adam P
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29-07-2010, 09:20 PM
KW

I'd just like to assure you that I'm not on here to advertise and I'm not likely to show my clients these threads (not even sure how that would come up tbh).
I came on in light of the wales ban and have stuck around because threads of interest to me keep coming up and because I like to show people there is an alternative to just reward based training.
Can I just point out my offer of e collar training support to Michaelm was free. The same apply's to anyone else who requires assitance.
Btw if our paths ever cross I'd be happy to show you my training or just have a conversation about it.

Lotsadaogs

Dogs were rescues and fearful of new owners due to previouse abuse.

Crysannia

You dog would have a level I assure you. Yes she's sensitive but I've worked with dogs who reacted more strongly to the shock you describe and they had a level.

KW(again)

While everyone on here is telling me I'm wrong, my clients, there dogs and other trainers are telling me I'm right. The percentages win out.

Adam
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Crysania
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29-07-2010, 09:31 PM
Let me assure YOU Adam that my dog has no level. None. Whatsoever. And the only electric collar I would EVER consider using would be one that only vibrates, nothing more, no possibility of a shock, and only on a deaf dog to get their attention. And the vibration would be trained in the most positive way.

I also wouldn't go to a "trainer" who (a) thinks that all dog training should involve painful shocks and (b) cannot even spell my name correctly despite seeing it multiple times. To me, that shows how observant you really are.
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Krusewalker
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29-07-2010, 09:34 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Well you ain't ignoring them----so IMO that is feeding them.

rune
yes, i have currently engaged denis in a discussion regarding OC terms and my notions of post OC.
this has been in a calm measured constructive way.
hopefully it will stay that, i havent checked yet

lou i think i exchanged one comment with.

however, i dont get your point as it doesnt relate to anything i have bought up on this thread?
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