Good point---they get so desensitised that they forget to call the collar a shock collar and they refer to sid shocks as 'stims'----because that gets them more custom.

Despicable!

rune

Hi Rune ect.

Trainer contacts who use a simialr all round approach as me, some are way more into the science definitions than me.

Re term stim. The collar makers use the term stimulation (as in electrical stimulation) the term stim is a shortened version of that. I use it because thats what I've always read/heard it refered to as. I have a few clients who refer to it as a zap/buzz. Still they relaise what it really is and aren't uncomfortable using any term in relation to it.

Adam

Sorry Adam, was that a reply to my question about the source of the "new thinking"?

Wys
x

Adam, who did/do you train with to get your information??

Also have you done much work with border collies?? You are correct that SOME of them can be so soft that they really cannot take any correction at all, but most of them are smart enough to know the difference between wearing the collar and not wearing it

I think he is talking about Denis who is back on DC!

He keeps quoting the same old 'studies' and has recently recommended AP to someone as a good trainer!

rune

OMG, it explains it all now!!

Yes it was Wysiwyg, I'm reluctant to attempt to spell your name if I can't see it lol.

Rune, I'd never heard of that guy before joining DC (are we allowed to mention other forums here btw) I realise he is very passionate about the e collar approach and that he likes my style of training. However my e collar influences have been more Lou Castle, and Dobbs dogs.

www.loucastle.com, www.dobbsdogs.com. I also like the work of http://diamondbarkennel.tripod.com/

BenMcfuzzlugs

I have two border collies. The older is 14 and the younger 4. I train alot of border collies (very popualr as readily available and cheap) A mix of basic obedience and behaviour problems. Most of the behaviour issues are either herding/chasing related or fear based issues.
I use e collars on them as much as any other breed. Probably used e collars on more collies than most other breeds (simply a numbers game, no behavioural reason).
Re correction strength. This is the beauty of e collars. There so adjustable you always use it at the first level the dog feels so the dog isn't over corrected. Useing a sound aversion 9for example) you might over correct the dog, with an e collar you won't.
Re collar wise (term used to describe a dog who only responds when collars on) There's loads of different approaches to avoiding this. I find using the collar then taking it off and doing a few more repititions of the command and then putting it back on and doing more repititions works well. The old way of doing it (which works well) was to leave the collar on for two weeks (e;g put it on everyday for a few hours) before you train with it. This isn't really practical if I need to improve the dog now or else so I have a different approach. As a rule dogs don't get collar wise regardless of breed unless you present it to them wrongly.

Adam

Ok, you can continue to call me ww if you need to

So when you refer to "current thinking" , you mean people who also use the same methods as you on another forum.

It's in fact basically certain people (one in particular) trying to diss reward based training, it's that simple. They've found a fake scientific way of doing it that sounds convincing.

Wys
x

For me David Ryan explains so well why e collars are wrong , now there's a man who really understands dogs not like some weirdo who makes videos of dogs with e collars attached near to their genitals and posts them on the internet ..

http://www.dog-secrets.co.uk/how-do-i-stop-my-dog-chasing/

David Ryan ROCKS. Here is a man who originally trained dogs as per the police/services way, but thought beyond the pale, and has moved on.

As someone who first went to dog classes under an ex-services trainer way back in 1982, when it was all jerk & choke & punishment - David Ryan has all my time and understanding.

He moved on and found a better way...as I did....
Pity you can't see that way forward, Adam.