Questions about Dillon's cruciate problem

As a lot of you know Dillon was limping yesterday and not bearing weight on his right hind leg so of to the vet we went yesterday evening.

Many thanks for all the support in my time of need again.

Anita the vet when she saw him walk in was almost certain cruciate then on examination and manipulation of the leg decided it was the cruciate. Her one not concern but doubt was is he is young and wondered whether it could be loose bits for want of a better phrae so checked the other knee and same method manipulation and said no the other knee was nice and tight. So proceeded to contact the RVC to make arrangeents for the x-ray and operation. He was given Rymadil for 5 days to ease the inflammation. He has had one so far last night before bed time.

Here is the question would that one tablet ease the pain so much and the infalammtiaon that on my coming downsatirs this morning he is back to his usual bouncy self with no signs that as I can see right now of any lameness ? Would this also be the cae if it was a cruciate problem would he recover so quickly wih one Rymadil and rest overnight ?

Yesterday he rested more than usual and was still limping and not weight bearing. It got better after he had been on his paws for a short while.

Should I ring the vet to have a chat she may well want to see him again thats ok or should I ring the vet but go ahead with the diagnosis from last night see the vet school let them do an x-ray and take it from there. Anita may well still want to go down this road and if it turns out it wasn't the cruciate all well and good and if it is it is easily fixable and hopefully no further problems.

I am interested to hear your thoughts especially those that have had cruciate problems with their dogs and did this happen to you ?

He is being his naughty self this morning which is lovely to see where as yesterday although he was bouncy he seemed out of sorts.

In my opinion, NO, I don't think it would, and also IMO I think some vets are far too keen to give you the worse to protect their backs! I've heard it so many times, remember my friend with that flatcoat who got damaged by that other dog jumping on him? It wasn't until she saw the specialist that she got a completely different diagnosis, a much, much better one, coz of course, a specialist is just that, they specialise in what your dog's problem is or might be.

I remember having to take Zena to my vet when she was Dillon's age, coz she's done a leg in, but a front. The vet was adamant after manipulating it that it was a small bit of cartiledge that had chipped off the knee and was causing the pain and there she was talking about having this op to remove it. She also considered pano, but dismissed it for this "bit of cartiledge". I told her again and again how I actually saw what my dog had done, she had skidded to a halt rolled over and probably damaged that shoulder. We had Rimadyl and lead walking for 10 days (I gave it 5 on a stretchy lead, but kept only to walking). I didn't use all the Rimadyl's either, I stopped before the end of the course she had given me and all was fine.

You seem to have a gut instinct here Lynn, you know Dillon, you have probably got your own diagnosis going on just like I did, so let's hope you are right by the time you get to that specialist. I'll have everything crossed that you are.

When you think about it, you would have thought, a dog would have to do something really out of sync to cause such damage as a torn cruciate and I just know you would never have let your boy do anything like this, especially given the size of him, the age of him, not to mention what you've been through in the past.

That's my twopennorth!!

I would be getting the vet to have a rethink, doesn't seem to add up does it.

Thanks Helena. My gut instinct is to go along with the RVC and to have it checked just to put my mind at rest really then if it is the worse scenario we have the op done and hopefully have limitation for the future as it will all of been dealt with quickly. Of course I will always worry in the future if he has to go through this.

He just seems so much better that it seems a little surreal now that last night we were thinking operations and to be truthful I was thinking the same yesterday cruciate most of the day hence why I made the appointment and still decided to have him checked out even when he seemed a little better by 2pm and even better by 3pm but still wasn't right.

He is insured and has lifetime cover so will be covered in the future if we have this put on his records and problems do arise again. I emailed his breeder last night to let her know and have emailed again this morning as I value her opinion too.

I can see why Anita made the decision she did and in some ways I am glad she did because she is erring on the side of caution with him large breed young dog try to nip any problems in the bud and save him suffering with arthritis while growing up and into old age although of course with large breeds you come to expect it and if you get away with it lovely.

I really hope it is going to be simple for him now and we don't have to go through any ops. I knew that little Bullfinch I met yesterday was there to help me. Another story I will post about it later you will be interested Helena.

A friend of mine has a border collie who ruptured a cruciate but it was several months before she was correctly diagnosed (once it has gone completely) because her symptoms were so intermittent and various. In fact, a cruciate injury was the last thing to be suspected.

I wouldn't assume that, just because he seems fine today, that her diagnosis was incorrect and, yes, if he has only torn it and not ruptured it, it's quite possible that rimadyl and rest would make him much more comfortable. These dogs are so good at concealing pain!

I hope it isn't though ..........................

While I am obviously praying its not cruciate and the vet got it wrong, I have to say the Rimadyl can have that effect and the same effect can appear with a dog having an adrenalin rush.
Shadys went undiagnosed for months and she was still running round like a looney on it, the Rimadyl hid a lot of the symptoms and when she was having one of her almost constant hyper adrenalin rushes you wouldn't see a limp with her and it wasn't till she then rested and got up calmly you would see her limp.
I know its good for a vet to warn you of the worse case scenario, but until an x-ray is done I wouldn't worry too much about it being cruciate as it will hopefully turn out to be something much more simple that just requires some complete rest for a week or two.

It really doesn't sound like it's as bad as we thought yesterday...

BUT I still think you should prepare for the worst. Saba got better and worse in the three weeks between injuring her cruciate and the operation. As you are aware if there is cruciate damage, then the longer you leave it the worse the arthritis will be.

Really hope it is nothing serious, but you are very wise to have it fully investigated.

Fingers crossed for the little big guy xx

I have to disagree with H after everything we have been through with Bruno over last few days, he has at some point ruptured or torn his cruciate I suspect since last fen as that's when last x-rays were done and all was fine, and thus he gas compensated in to his other leg, been very intermittedly limping on his leg which we just assumed was athritis, but was probably his cruciate, and we are now a year down the road with him with really awful athritis in both knees and the possibility they can do nothing for him. I wouldn't take that chance Lynn and would err on the side of caution!

Lovely guys thanks for all the input.

We are definitely going ahead with the further investigations. We feel we would be very unwise not to do so and may cause Dillon unneccessry suffering in the future which of course we don't want.

Funny thing is he has had his second Rymadil and on rising seems a little stiff again. So there is something wrong but further investigation will tell us and hopefully if it is cruciate we will of caught it really early.

There is something else I failed to mention which we now wonder if it is playing a part. I have notcied over the last month or so one of his toes on the same leg splays away from the next toe. As he is maturing it is showing up more. Imagine you are looking from the back it is the 4th toe then a gap then the 3rd toe which seems higher and slightly longer than it should be. Bernese should have tight compact toes and all the same length slightly arched. The vet spotted it yesterday too and mentioned it. She thinks it may of been a problem while he was in the uterus something has pushed the toes apart. So congenital rather than hereditary or breeding fault. She likened it to a dinosaur toe. Awwww poor Dilon so they may look into this too not sure what they could do though. It certainly wasn't noticeable when he was younger.

I looked at Dillon and said thats your show career finished before starting if you need an op and she said with that toe it is anyway. I doubt we will be able to cart him either if his cruciate has gone. Never mind he is a pet first and foremost and as long as he lives a happy healthy life thats whats most important to us.

Just wanted to add, until you have a diagnosis, I would try and stop him getting excited and running and jumping about. (hard I know with a young pup) but whatever the cause of the lameness, cruciate or simply a strain it needs rest to stop it getting worse and more damage being done.
If you are having the legs x-rayed I would at the smae time just ask for an x-ray of the hips to make sure all is well there as I had a problem with a 6 month old lab pup that come from generations of good hip scored labs and yet he had terrible hips and was then diagnosed with hip dysplasia. His symptoms were almost identical to Shadys cruciate. It would just give you peace of mind and catch any problems early.