Ok, as I have been off for a few days I am back.

I do not believe that these collars are punishment. *shrugs* It is just a way of indicating to my dog that something is not favorable. They get a lot of positive attention. I'm sure there are other ways of getting attention. I do gingle things etc.

I didn't appreciate you making fun of me, YoungStevie. If you bothered to read my profile you would see that I have only had adult rescue dogs. I am from the US and am not keen on people letting their dogs run loose without any kind of training. It was a shock when I moved here. It is not mean to keep your dog on a lead. My girl I have only had since September and my boy I have only had since Feb. My girl has well trained by now and possibly ready for off-lead training but I am going to wait till my boy is ready. He was highly abused and starved to near death. It has taken me three months to get him out of danger. Walks are short but getting longer. He doesn't have the staminia for much. He will possibly not go off lead for along time due to some agression problems. I don't need advice on it Sona. I am doing just about everything you mentioned.

I had no idea this site was such a private club. All I wanted was a discussion on the topic of these collars and I have met with abuse and laughter.

I am actually so offended by your statment YoungStevie and the rest of these statements that this will be the last post I put here. I will be lodging a complaint.

In answer to your recent post, I therefore ask where I made fun. As I stated I said IMO I would feel mean to mine....that means MY dogs. I stand by what I said, you said to Shona that you agreed that you only use them fro training purposes, then in a later post you said you are greeted with stares from people on how well behaved they are....which to me means that they are on choke chains everytime they go out then. I asked what ages as I didn;t know. It was a simple question Hun.
And I asked why you have had problems with all the dogs you have, was there a reason......again a question

If I wanted to poke fun I would of done so in a much more obvious way. You posted about a positive notre on choke chains, I've owned and worked with dogs for 46 years....and never used or felt the need to use one, even with Aggressive dogs, and if have worked to with abused and half starved dogs, and would never use one on them either. As I said No Making Fun....just My Opinion

I am sorry you feel like that, but honestly just because someone does not agree does not mean that they are having a go at YOU or poking fun
THe discussion was about the collar, some people like them some people dont
As far as I can see people were just stating why they did not like them
Good on you for taking on dogs with such problems, and I dont think anyone here would dispute that it is a good thing that you are working with them before letting them off the lead
I just personally dont think a choke chain is a good way to train a dog - a dog can be on a lead, being trained with a flat collar or harness or anything

In the short time I have been here I have found this site v friendly
there are lots of people with tonnes of experience and I am learning lots

There are also people on here who I have been on the other sides of debates about one issue but who I would consider online friends and I respect and totaly agree with them on other issues

sure not everyone will agree - but its not ganging up on you - people have come in agreeing with you

I honestly think you are being a bit sensitive, but I am sorry if something I said was worded in a way to cause offence to you (or anyone)

If you debate from your heart honestly trying to educate people and put your point across without animosity it is possible to make people think
People on here totaly changed my ideas on feeding when I was adament that dry food was the best in the world and anything else was slowly killing dogs - look how I have changed from there
I say what I believe - but I am willing to listen - and are the loads of lurkers who read these things
If you truly think this is the best way to train your dogs then feel free to explain it - but also try and keep a wee bit of your mind open to others view too

would like to say that i have used check chains as i call them and i think if used correctly are ok dont use them now as i use a slip leash.
also if used in the correct manner a prong collar will not cause pain
the problem with both is not a lot of people do,
have had a prong collar round my leg (on bare skin) so know for a fact that they dont inflict pain

my post was not advice for you,, if you note the post said,,,FOR EXAMPLE say your dog did this,,,, it was a general situation,, giving a way to go about things before you try a chain, as you already use one, it wasnt directed at you

I think there may be a clash of cultures here - as I understand it, in some parts of the US dogs are always on lead (except for special dog parks), and the use of aversives and `equipment` is fairly common. Maybe people also from the US can tell me if this is correct?
20 years ago the prevailing advice in the UK was a la Barbara Woodhouse - dominate your dog using a choke chain and stand no nonsense`. Dog training here has largely progressed and most people now try to use positive methods. The OP says she is not posting again, but if she`s reading this - it was your methods we were querying, not your obvious good intentions. I hope your rescues get on well - but keep an open mind to other methods please.

[QUOTE=Mayvren;1386267]Ok, as I have been off for a few days I am back.

I do not believe that these collars are punishment. *shrugs* It is just a way of indicating to my dog that something is not favorable. They get a lot of positive attention. I'm sure there are other ways of getting attention. I do gingle things etc. [QUOTE]

I'm sorry you feel that way too - and am not sure if you will be reading this as you said it was the last post you would put up .

I think people feel very passionately about the subject as there are far kinder ways to signal to a dog that they are doing wrong e.g. non reward signals. I recently read an artical by David Appleby on the subject of signals/commands. He recommends that people rethink and view their interactions as signals rather than commands as that is all a dog is doing, reacting to a signal in the way that gets a rewards or removes a punishment.

I prefer to click and treat when Tonks is wallking in the right place and use a non reward signal when she isn't - my signal isn't yanking, checking or giving a warning sound with my voice, it is standing completley still and looking the other way. she then doesn't get to move forward (which is the reward she wants) until the lead is loose - yes it is time consuming in the begining, but it works and is more effective and kinder to the dog.

I certainly feel passionate about choke chains and how great using reward based hands off training is because i have seen the results of both and know the research and evidence behind both methods. I really cannot understand how anyone could read and research into both types of methods and still decide to stay with devices such as choke chains.

I have only joined this site fairly recently and love it - i had got disolused with reading the terrible advice on other sites about dominating your dog in order for it to behave well and have to say that it was a breath of fresh air to find a site where more progressive methods were being used by people with a wide range of breeds and types of dogs of different ages and with different backgrounds. The majority of the advice given here is far more up to date and kind compared to other sites. Thank you Dogsey!

you are right I joined a obedience class with my current gsd
and my previous gsd both basic obedience in a vet clinic and both times I was chastised for not using a prong collar it was a requirement of joining the class,me being me said poff im not using it,but there were people there that were forced to buy one from the vet clinic because they didnt have one(and were too nice to say no)one I will always remember it was a 6 week old great dane and she screamed blue murder every week for 3 weeks while they were dragging her around on that collar,needless to say my dog didnt go to anymore classes in the us If thats what they are I want no part of it and noone can tell me those collars dont cause pain I saw itxxxx

Im really surprised i always thought that the US was more progressive.

So far, when I wish to register disapproval in a manner which the dog will accept (we're talking Border Collies here, so the procedure might not work for thick dogs ), I take the dog's chin in my hand, GENTLY, and tell him "Naughty, naughty dog! No (whatever it is he's doing)! No!"

To date, I have had no repetitions and no bites, so I reckon it works.

But, of course, they ARE Border Collies, smartypants dogs

Snorri