Like our Rob




A dog needs plenty of power to work and stand up to tups.

I agree with the others regarding long lining so that he doesnt get killed, but that aside, the sheep 'live' in those fields and have every right to be there, and it isnt fair to subject them to being 'worried' by ANY dog, so out of pure respect for them and the farmer they belong to, your dog should remain on a long line at the very least.

Hi Sally I am a little confused here, if you knew you couldn't afford an ecollar what was the point in trying it ?

You have had some suggestions in this thread as to how to train without resorting to ecollars, there are no quick fixes to training dogs I am afraid if that is what you are looking for.
Yes you may be able to keep your dog from chasing livestock if you are prepared to put the time and patience into training in the ways that have been suggested here . Otherwise the most sensible course of action is to take your dogs where there are no livestock.

TBH I don't think the main problem is that he has a high prey drive per se. As I have said before there is no aggressive behaviour involved - he doesn't seem to want to 'kill' the sheep and he doesn't go after squirrels or cats. The main problem as I see it, is that he has already experienced the excitement of chasing and 'playing' with sheep and it's this playful excitement that takes over.

To be fair, I only ever tried the e-collar once for a half-hour session. From what I saw, if used over a longer period with proper training, I think it would work as a training aid that would not have to be used forever.

Oh dear! The session I had was nothing like that at all! The idea was NOT to punish the dog with the e-collar. The collar was used as a 'nudge' to the dog, like you would use a choke chain or rattle bottle or one of Cesar Milans 'bite-touches'. The idea was to snap the dog out of his excitement and remind him where his focus SHOULD be - in this case walking within a reasonable distance of ME and not being distracted by the sight of sheep. I can assure you that at no time did Spike show any indication of being in any pain.

Just to clear a few things up as I think I might have given some people the wrong impression: I don't walk anywhere where sheep are loose i.e. in a field full of sheep. But I do sometimes walk NEXT TO livestock fields. I ALWAYS keep Spike on a short lead whenever we are anywhere near livestock fields.

I asked around a few ppl I know for advice about how to stop livestock chasing and someone suggested a training session with an e-collar. TBH I had never given them much consideration - I had no clue before the training session how they were used properly, and so had never looked into the price until afterwards.

Phew! Sorry it's such a long post! Hope this clears up any misunderstandings.

Oh, from what you said earlier (below) you gave the impression that you KNOW he chases sheep, because he's done it before and even cornered a sheep

Yes, he has chased sheep on three occasions:

On the first occasion he was a pup of about 5/6 months and he escaped from my garden into the farm behind.

The second occasion we were walking (Spike off lead) on a path about 10 yards away from a well fenced (Spike-proof) livestock field. I hadn't noticed that a sheep had escaped and was behind a nearby bush until Spike took off after it.

The third occasion we were in a field separated from a livestock field (loosely hedged w BW fences) by a small copse with a pond. We were about 50 yards away from the copse and I (stupidly) thought there were enough barriers to do some off lead work. He spotted a weak point in the fence dashed straight over the field, through the copse, pond and fence and into the livestock field.

I realise how lucky I am that he wasn't shot on any of these occasions. My local farmer has been extremely generous in his leniency. I also know it's all my own fault so please don't lay into me just to try and make me feel guilty - I already feel guilty. Needless to say, I have never let him off lead ANYWHERE NEAR livestock since that third time (apart from the one half-hour session with the e-collar).

Well just by your statements above, it seems that as soon as he is loose, he heads straight for sheep, which would indicate that his 'prey' drive kicks in, otherwise he would run somewhere else or in the opposite direction, or just go off sniffing, but the fact that he always heads for the sheep say to me that I wouldn't even risk it, also it's unfair on the sheep.

I don't try to make people feel guilty. Yes you are lucky that he hasnt been shot yet, you're also very lucky that he hasnt killed or maimed a sheep !

I know many Mals and Huskies that are fantastic dogs off lead, are clicker trained to do almost anything bar make a coffee, yet prey drive is prey drive and nothing would stop them from 'worrying' sheep, as that is what the breeds are known for. It's Instinct.

I would keep him longlined, or only let off in secure, enclosed areas

He does take off - but he has never shown any aggression and when he catches up to them he playbows and jumps around them. He just acts like he does when he's playing with other dogs. This is one of the reasons why my local farmer didn't shoot him as he said, 'I could see he was only playing. There's no aggressive intent there at all.'

I agree and this is what I am doing at the moment, but as I know it IS possible to train him to stop this behaviour, I'd much rather keep trying what I can, in the hope that one day he'll be obedient EVEN whilst sheep are nearby.

How do you know that he CAN be trained to stop it ?

Being shocked out of something isn't the same as being trained.

If you put a leccy fence around a field full of chocolate, children would only touch it once, realise the consequence, then leave alone and go without. Dogs are no different, and by training with an e collar, you are simply shocking him NOT to do it AT that time, it's NOT training him to never do it, so for that reason, I would never take the chance with a dog that has a prey drive, no matter what, it's not fair to either party

A 'nudge'...I'm a little confused by this.
Your dog has an ecollar round his neck.
When he shows interest the ecollar is activated and your dog moves away from the sheep right?
Why does he do that?
Does he do that because he suddenly thinks 'oh no I dont want that sheep' or does he do it because something hurt him and made him move away?

Your dog obviously made progress with an ecollar on, but then as soon as it was removed, your dog is back to square one, so your dog knows it's the collar. He knows that when the collar is on, it hurts, so he doesn't chase the sheep.
How long before he ignores the collar on the setting it was on and the 'trainer' suggests upping it? How long will it be before the 'trainer' decides it's time for a once and for all shock and makes him scream?

An ecollar does not 'nudge' and ecollar hurts, that's why people use them, it is naive to think otherwise, if they didn't hurt the dog would ignore them.
Great post.
As Malady said, how do you KNOW that? I think you have to ask yourself if it is ever worth the risk of letting him offlead anywhere near sheep again. If he was my dog, which he obviously isn't. I wouldn't. He has already chased sheep, no matter what the intent and escaped with his life (I wonder what time of year it was that he did it, perhaps the farmer may have been less lenient in Spring)...why even think about risking those lives again?