Trust isn't taught it is earned and gained with the use of time, patience and understanding. You can't bully and beat a dog into trusting you, it may comply with your wishes because it is fearful, don't confuse fear with trust.

No you're gaining trust, the dog doesn't live in a untrusting state - it's not all about training either - it's feeding, living and sharing space with the dog that helps gain trust.

You ought to listen to Tassle - she does have one of the crosses less likely to trust man. (I'm sure that's right - Tassle please correct me if I am wrong)

From a pup trust is easy - they are taken away from their mother and we imprint on them - causing them to trust us and follow us - it's as they get older and through the situations we put them in that we gain their trust.

My Sadie hates water but if I had to lead her across a river - she would follow me because she trusts me. Louie hates the car, but if I say it's OK - he jumps in - because he trusts me. Benjie is fear aggressive - but if I handle him in the right way - he calms down and settles - because he trusts me. It's took me 2 years to gain Benjie's trust and IMO if you're going to have a dog you take the time to earn that trust. I'm scared of walking the streets at night - even if it's to go up to the Post box, I can take any of my dogs because I know we have enough trust in each other to keep each other safe.

Also if you don't trust your dog in a certain situation - if possible - don't put them in that situation!

Owning a dog and training it is simple - any idiot can do it!
But taking the time to understand and build a relationship with your dog is the best thing in the world - no matter how long it takes and it lasts longer than training.

Would you or anyone else put an electric collar on your child,loved one, family or any one else to make them adhere/fit in to society as you expect and perceive it to be? A short sharp shock is understandable in certain respects perhaps but not the way much of the time (jmo)Am not knocking anything anyone says, but .....?

Am I not the only one who is repulsed by the idea of subjecting a fearful rescue dog - to whom god knows what manner of abuse has been dealt by humans - to an e-collar?

And how about the rescue it came from (if it did come through legitimate rescue)? That's grounds enough for them to take it back.... if they knew!

Zeff trusts me more that the feral Spaniel X I have.

I have never known a dog more wild, he was starving and emaciated when he arrived...and I managed to get him through the first week by getting up through the night and feeding him (It was the only time he would eat)

I cannot imagine the fear and pain this dog would have gone through with Adam attempting to place a collar round this dogs neck and then causing him pain each time he stepped away from a human. I could honestly say I think it would have killed him.

In the time I have had Zeff, he has learnt to trust me 100%. Which was proved when we went to the vets the other day. I am SO proud of my boy and how far he has come....without the need for subjecting him to pain.

I, also, am repulsed and saddened - poor dog, would've been better off back in kennels..

My point exactly!

If i ever owned a dog, with a problem so bad that i couldnt fix without using a EC. id rather have it PTS , than subjected to this abuse.

These are animals, they are living & breathing. They dont need electricity to "work" they arent a microwave

and my kaos

Michael I don't think everyone is equating all electric shocks with pain, there are various factors to consider.
In the main we are discussing externally applied electrical stimulus/ shock and the mental and physical effects this action produces.
We know different areas of the body respond differently to pain and touch . Areas with lots of nerve endings like the finger tips or soles of the feet have different levels of feeling to internal organs like the heart which I understand have very little feeling so I don't think you can use a pacemaker as an example here.
I am sure as with humans dogs have different pain thresholds and when using an e collar where you place it on the dog/the thickness of coat/skin/size of dog affect the level of pain and discomfort experienced by the dog.

As we all know (and as illustrated in the video )dogs and humans can be conditioned to perform certain behaviours using reward so inflicting pain and discomfort at any level in order to get a dog to comply is unnecessary .