Thanks MM. No, there were no injuries at all - which I am really surprised about tbh, as the level of the attack was of an apparent ferocity I haven't experienced with my guys before. All the dogs were wary of one another for a day afterwards, but all appears to be back to normal again now.

I am ringing the vet tomorrow about x-rays and pain relief and am managing their excitement levels as we head out - and I believe that will go a long way towards heading off another incident like this (I blo*dy hope so anyway!). I am also going to try and spend a bit more time with Yogi on his own, so he isn't feeling left out and grumpy.

Thanks BenMc. The thing is that Zak didn't even fight back, he just submitted immediately, squealed and tried to get away, but Yogi wouldn't let him. Yogi has done this before to Moss, who just lay on the floor, submissive and whimpering, but Yogi continued his attack. It was directly after that attack that I rang the vet and booked Yogi in for neutering. I do now wonder if that was the right decision, but too late to go back now.

Hey ho - what fun multi dog households can be, eh!

Lady, our dobe does not tolerate barging and in the main, I have managed to stop polo running at her. I let polo get out of control at the beginning of a walk the other day. He gets aroused when lady runs fast past him. He caught up with her and then barked in her face as he blocked her - I just saw her do a triple air snap and run at him and hurled the leads between them. This just stopped it before it started. I then leashed both of them for a few mins to calm down.

I tend to grab the tail if a dog has a go and move them backwards. You then have a second to let go if they whirl around at you. Not that they ever have.

Yogi sounds sooo much like Hoki these days.

Remember I had a behaviourist in when things were at their worst - well some advice she gave me was (and don't forgot this was specifically for my dogs so may not be the same for yours, but it might give you some ideas):

Watch their body language carefully.

With Hoki, her eyes go really 'hard' when she's in an aggressive mood - sounds strange to say, but you can really tell when she's angry.

Work out the triggers and manage the situations before anything happens (as you say you've already started this by the pre-walk procedure)

If/when they've had a fight, treat them both equally afterwards - tell them both off but don't put the aggressor out of the way - keep them both equal distance from you and not looking directly at each other.

This was the hardest bit for Andy to deal with because as Hoki usually came off worse, he would always be angry with Stumpy and throw her outside while giving Hoki lots of attention. But he was ready to follow the behaviourist's advice and we soon saw that the tension dissolved much more quickly by following this.

What I also found helped was doing training sessions with them both rather than one to one time. So one has to stay in a down while the other one does a fetch or heelwork or even gets brushed - whatever. The important thing is the one that is lying patiently gets masses of praise and reward.

This really helped Hoki with her jealousy as she started to see Stumpy getting attention as a good thing.

Whilst I do know what you are saying about wanting both dogs to be yours, I think you should accept some help from Alan. For example, perhaps when you are out with Zak, Alan can give Yogi a bit of attention. Then make sure that you give Yogi attention when you are back (but as I say, possibly not one to one, but with Zak there)

Yes, there is a real potential of this, particularly what you were saying about him turning on Rip which he wouldn't normally do. When H&S are in the 'red zone' I know damn well that any part of me that gets in the way will get bitten - not deliberately, but they are so worked up they don't even realise what they are doing.

Its good for you if water works - might be worth keeping a full bucket in the yard for the time being. It made no difference to H&S - they didn't even notice the water!

Thanks Claire I have started the management process since the incident, and so far it is working well As you say, it is a bit of a faff to start with, but it will soon become routine.

Thanks for the compliments Nick As for your "cold comment", that is exactly how I felt the following morning. It could have been so much worse and, at the end of the day, no one (human or dog) was injured and peace appears to have resumed in the household once more. As I have said in a previous comment, I am just taking this as a wake-up call to manage the boys behaviour a bit more vigorously than I had been doing. Looking back, I think I had got a bit lax in letting Zak bounce around barking at Yogi when we were getting ready to go out.

I don't have metacam at home unfortunately, but am going to get some from the vet tomorrow and book him in for x-rays and further investigation.

I have heard really good things about rhus tox before. Worth a shot.

I know you have mentioned rhus tox to me loads of times Helen I really must get some. In fact, I have just ordered some from amazon!

Things seem to be back to normal now, thankfully.

Oh wow - you sound like you really know my two boys, as you have their personalities down to a tee

I agree with you 100%. Yogi is a s*d at times, and the longevity of his attacks, while few, have been more prolonged each time. I think the thing that saved injuries this time (and the other times) is that the dog he has had a go at (Zak three times now and Moss once) do not fight back. If Zak were to retaliate with the intensity that Yogi appears to fight, then I could have a real problem. I don't delude myself at all.

I also agree that, while Yogi's current health condition may be causing him some discomfort and/or pain, that is not the entire cause of the fight breaking out.

Personally, I think the key to managing them is keep them separate when no one is here (which I already do), and to manage the levels of excitement when embarking on a walk etc.

Yogi has never attacked "for no reason", but it does seem that he has a low tolerance level.

I think if water works, I would rather try that first than attempt to lift their back legs off the ground - I have heard from a number of people that that is the best way to stop a dog fight, but it sounds to me as though there would be quite a risk involved.

That is the real key isn't it - to stop it before it gets started. That is the management I have in place now. I am just not going to tolerate any barking at each other and am not even going to allow rough play any more, as that can quickly turn to aggression against one another.

Thanks for all those tips Hali, I certainly think they are going to be very useful in the coming days/months. Thank you x