The most expencive i've heard of was a 50.000€ trained malinois. It was a category 2 trained Belgian ringdog that was sold to the US

If i'm not mistaken 1,5€=1 £

then 3.780£=5.550€ which is a normal sellingprice for a trained category 3 (lowest category )malinois

Greetings

Johan

I just can`t comprehend working with a dog, bringing one on to such a high level, which takes a real partnership and bond, then selling the dog. I just could`nt do it


The rescue has his papers and when Defa was recognised by someone who knew the breeder, [ this was at a country show whre the rescue had a trade stand which I was helping to man ], the rescue confirmed the guy was correct. I can`t remember the details now, [ ten years on ], except that the sire was a champion and had been on One Man and His Dog, [ I don`t know how he fared on that and I have`nt been able to find pics of entrants to pin him down - apparently he would be very recognisable as Defa`s lineage hence the bloke spotting him my lad so easily ].
The rescue he came from don`t release specific details to adopters nor papers, [ he was handed in with his full pedigree papers and breeder details ], to prevent people trying to contact them for any reason or to cash in by breeding when any dogs are homed un-neutered for any reason, so I was`nt given too much info
The bloke who recognised him and finding out what little I was allowed to know about the sire was after I adopted him so it did`nt play any part in me choosing him and really as him working sheep just was`nt a possibility I did`nt think anything of it at the time other than that I had a very intelligent lad with exceptionally high work drive on my hands which meant finding lots of ways to keep his brain busy enough to keep him happy :smt001

I am going to see if the rescue will give me details now as I would dearly love to know the specifics and its so many years on now plus Defa certainly can`t be bred from anyway - snip snip

I couldn't train a dog from a pup to a high level (or any level) and then sell it - that's just me. Having dogs to help you make a living though takes a different mindset. It doesn't mean it is cruel, just different. With farming in this country going down the spout, many farmers have had to diversify. Sheep farmers can rarely make a living these days from sheep alone and therefore many of the top handlers/triallists have a sideline in bringing pups on, training and then selling them. I see nothing wrong in this, as they can't keep all the dogs that pass through their hands and as long as the dogs are treated well and looked after then what's the problem? Yes it isn't for you, or me, but then it takes all sorts to make the world go round

I would love to know Defa's lines if you get to find out

Dont get me wrong, I was`nt saying it wa cruel, I just can`t get in to the mindset of getting such a great working bond then parting with that dog for money like they were a comodity
Maybe it comes from growing up with a military handler father who never considered his dogs as just ` tools of the trade `.
His retired with the family and when his last dog retired he felt he would never achieve such a good partnership again so he rebadged to a different trade. So basically, I grew up believing a working dog deserved to stay with the family he or she was happy with and devoted to, not `discarded`. [ or sold ]. for any reason.

The farmers guilty of cruelty imo are those who breed a litter to keep one then drown the rest or who shoot them which happened a lot during the foot and mouth outbreak or who just dumped them during that time because they were`nt `earning their keep`, but they expected rescues to find trained working dogs a suitable home when there were so few working homes available at the time. Then when the crisis was over and farmers restocked their sheep, some within a month or two, they would just get another dog. To me, a dog working for a living should be entitled to a few months `holiday` at times like that, not just discarded like rubbish. Saying they could not afford to keep the dogs is a misnomer given the hugely inflated compensation they were paid by the government.
Those saying the dogs would go nuts without work to do, what work were those dogs going to get in rescue kennels then being placed in non-sheep working family homes ?
There were something like 10,000 extra collies dumped during the crisis, let alone how many were shot

Were I one of those farmers with working dogs, if my dogs were going nuts I would have bought some ducks for them to work til it was possible to re-stock sheep, [ hypothetical though as I`m vegetarian so any sheep I would have would be pets anyway so I would`nt have more than one working dog in such a situation anyway but thats by the by ].


If I can persuade them to tell me I`ll definately let you know, you probably know far more of the working lines than I do

this really winds me up whenever I hear it. There may well have been that number of collies dumped during foot and mouth but that does not mean that they came from farmers who didn't want them cos they weren't earning their keep. I know of a lot of people that went to rescues looking for a working dog when this news broke and were told by embarressed staff that they didn't actually have any and that they had used the excuse to try and re-home more collies. I have farming relatives and none of them know of anyone that dumped their dogs and they were horrified at the prospect. As for the hugely inflated compensation that they were paid, it didn't come through overnight and farmers were left with no livestock and no income and some barely able to feed themselves and their families let alone dogs and cats on the farm. Farming in some areas of this country is a hard existence at best. The spread of F & M could easily have been prevented if the government could be bothered but they couldn't and the result was mass slaughter and devastation.

There is also more than one rescue in this area that I happen to know for a fact took in several litters that were born on farms in that time to rehome as farmers couldn't risk loads of people coming and going.

It takes years to train a dog to work sheep. One uncle of mine told me that they know all they need to a few short years before they retire and they are in fact worth a lot of money and invaluable to the farmer.

Dogs from foot and mouth infected farms could only be moved on approval from DEFRA and under strict rules imposed. Farmers whose animals were destroyed due to F & M were not allowed to simply take their dogs off the farm and "get rid of them"

Don't take my word for it, have a look for yourself here and click on the foot and mouth archives, you will also see an account from an american vet who had worked in cumbria (where I have relatives and saw the devastation first hand ) he tells the story of how cruel and heartless farmers were during the crisis..... NOT

http://www.bordercollierescue.org/Frames.html

I am sure I read (on more than one site) that only one type of duck is suitable to be used for this purpose and for farmers that had just lost everything including their income buying ducks for their dogs to play with simply wasn't an option........

They are an amazing breed and nothing is better than seeing them working and enjoying using their brains

Totally agree with you on every point.
I work for a charity aimed at Livestock (Cattle, sheep, pigs) and had to deal with the fallout of foot and mouth. The restictions in place were so strict and a lot of farmers didn't recover. I drove up through Cumbria the following year and the devastation of F&M was all too clear even a year on. Empty fields where sheep had been etc. In my job I deal with Farmers on a day to day basis and I assure you compensation was VERY slow at coming through. Yes there were those few stories of some farmers abbusing the compensation and committing fraud, but there is always a minority in everything that spoils it for the rest and give them a bad name.
Most of them have collies and have a huge respect for them. They are a partnership.
Some they have trained themselves and some they have bought in . Not all have the time to train the dogs. This is where some people have found a side line and why should they not be paid for the time and effort they have put into training their dogs. Yes there is a bond there, but I have ran friends dogs and I believe the eagerness to work and herd is just as strong as the bond with their owner. Horses are sold on with training as some do not have the experience to break horses in. Should people be compensated for the time they put in. Yes they should.
Guide dogs are trained up then handed over. Putting the money issue to one side, do these dogs not build up a strong bond with their new owners??

Completely agree Colliemad - well said.

You have hit the nail on the head there Megan. Working collies, especially hard-wired dogs who have known nothing but work from puppyhood, are as dedicated to their work as to their owner - in fact probably more so. They live to work and, to be honest, as long as they are fed, watered and kept in reasonable comfort they soon accept new owners and situations without any stress or upset.