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JanieM
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07-09-2009, 11:57 AM

"take babies from bad families"

As said by cheif exec (I think) of Barnados.

What do you think? Should children be taken earlier from certain families to give them a better chance at having a decent, fulfulling life? How do you decide if a family is unsuitable? Does abuse have to have taken place first?

I see the sense in what he's saying when you look at some of the stories recently, obviously Baby Peter and now those 2 boys who tortured sexually abused those other boys. Stories like them are shocking, but how often are they occuring and when should someone step in a take the children away?
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ClaireandDaisy
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07-09-2009, 12:41 PM
What about the woman who`s on to her 14th in a recent story? Or family members?
I think they need to work far more closely with these families - with legal action or taking children away as an option if things don`t get better.
In the past the Health Visitor would have picked most of these up. Recently a friend had her first child and was `lucky` to be kept in overnight! When I had my first you got 10 days in learning how to manage (bath/ feed) a baby, then the health visitor came every few days, then you `had` to go to the local clinic. A bit paternalistic perhaps, but better than sending a woman home without a thought. Apparently this family had been `known about` for years.
Schools are also under an obligation to alert social services if children appear neglacted. These kids were failed all along the line.
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Nippy
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07-09-2009, 12:45 PM
I have very mixed feelings about this and I think social workers are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
The thing is SS know the "at risk" families, some go on having children that are neglected and abused.
I think these are the families that Barnadoes are considering removing children from.
As I say, mixed feelings but I have no training in these matters.
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honeysmummy
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07-09-2009, 12:49 PM
I think in theory it is a very good idea.
But as a mum it scares the hell out of me!! Who decides if and why you are unfit? There are many injutices in this world and whos to know if they get it wrong sometimes????
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BigBearsRule
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07-09-2009, 01:07 PM
How would they decide who is fit to be a parent? Very scary place to be as a parent.
when my third child was 3 months old and the 3 of them had all had the chicken pox plus it was school holidays, I went to my clinic and saw the health visitor, told her I wasnt coping well my eldest, then 6 was playing up big style. Instead of talking to me and acknowledging that as a long term depression sufferer, was have a bad phase with my depression. Did she help me -NO, she sent social service after me for saying I could strangle my 6 yr old daughter. I was tired, stressed and not coping well - the last thing I needed was to be put under more stress. Did that make me a bad mother, were my children at risk?
What would your decision have been?
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Katie23
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07-09-2009, 01:35 PM
in theory great idea



but *some* social workers being as the are i think would abuse these powers. so i dont think it would be a good idea overall tbh....
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JanieM
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07-09-2009, 02:53 PM
ClaireandDaisy, I've read about that woman on her 14th child, will keep having them until SS let her keep one. It seems that she is obviously considered a bad mother/family otherwise why were all these children taken off her? She and others like her should stop producing children. Maybe if there was some incentive NOT to have them. Like benefits for not having children and contributing to a over populated world.
Would that work?


I agree it would be scary that someone could make a judgement that you are not a fit parent and your child be removed and no doubt miscarriages of justice occur. But on the flip side surely things need to be re-evaluated as there are a lot of nasty children out there.
Who's to blame for the children who torture a dog to death? Parents? Society? School?
For me the buck always stops with the parents I'm afraid.
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ClaireandDaisy
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07-09-2009, 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by JanieM View Post
Who's to blame for the children who torture a dog to death? Parents? Society? School?
For me the buck always stops with the parents I'm afraid.

Totally agree - but the best thing would be to try to change the behaviour, rather than taking the children into the Care system - which is not an ideal solution. A family is for life - the care system stops at 16. If you change a bad parent you help a whole family - and their descendants.
If this parent could have been helped get off drugs, get rid of the abusive lover and taught how to be a decent human being it would have halted the cycle of abuse.
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JanieM
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07-09-2009, 03:24 PM
I think what you said about hospitals wheeling them in, popping them out and sending them home is true and all the "aftercare" as it were. I don't have children but I'm assuming the resources aren't there anymore and maybe health visitors/hospitals or wotnot are too PC these days. Sounds like all the basics are being missed out sadly.

I do think that's it's all too easy these days to pop out child after child and have the State provide finacially for them. Maybe if this happened less then more consideration and responsibility would be given to the creation of that child in the first place and maybe that could lead to a better standard of parenting.
I don't know, that maybe a very naive view of things and may well be no answer as obviously it's parents from all income backgrounds who can be abusive. But it does seem that "certain types" produce "certain types". (Am I going to get flamed for that comment???!!!)
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aliwin
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07-09-2009, 03:44 PM
One of the main problems is what is the ideal family? And is a life in the care of the state any improvement for the children. As a student children's nurse I see an awful lot of children of all ages that live, in my opinion, less than ideal circumstances. Whatever the situation children are in, more often than not these children love their parents. They know no different. To then separate them from all they have known and siblings etc is a really difficult decision. There are unfortunately some families that are never going to work and it is best for the children to be removed. In the cases of baby Peter and these 2 lads in the news recently it is not just social workers that have let them down, these children have been let down by many professions along the way.

I'm not sure what the answer is really as there will always be families who slip through the net unintentionaly and through deceit of the family.

As for certain types producing certain types, a valid comment, parents are educators and children mimic their behaviour!
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