Slapping a dog on the head, however light or hard, is just asking for him to bite you again.

He bit you for a reason, and hitting him on the head is only going to hurt him for having done something he had probably already forgotten about. He would not know that it was because he bit you - and to him he probably had a good reason for having bitten but would have no idea why he was then hit on the head.

And from the look of the wound in that photograph, it was not life-threatening so why did you have to hit him?

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Well Jodee, I disagree with there not being a pack order. Sure there not wild dogs , but the family IS there pack.they still have that in them weather there wild or tame.
My collie herds but he has never been show. It's in him.
And weather like me you have worked with dogs or even had them all your life with new ideas and whatever a dog is a pack animal.
But you have your opinion and I have mine.
But I'd add this to Lua Meur,
Dogs do not get resentful they live in the moment ,which is why he can go from giving a bite to looking like the happiest dog in the world.you have to stop seeing him as a person and start seeing him as a dog.xx

Ive highlighted some of Joedee post above because she is talking sense and hopefully you will take it on board.

Your dog is NOT trying to be n 2 in the pack, you have missed warning signs with the goldie that she is not comfortable in situations and she has now got to the stage where she has only one option and that's to bite, you have suppressed her warning (growl) over time and now you are in this situation.

You need to reevaluate the situation completely.

Firstly Dobes and Goldies are two different breeds with different inherent traits, the Dobe will be more responsive to stay close, the Goldie will not, it sin her nature to "go out and seek" that does not mean you cant rain her to respond, but if you have a little more understanding to their individuality it might help you.

You need to find the triggers that set her off and work to stop it happening, i.e "she wont come in after a walk, so you grab her collar, she does not like that, so she cant growl, because you tell her off, so she bites"... instead try........ walk her out on the lead, then she will just follow you into the house, without any confrontation, you can then take the lead off and give her a treat and say good girl.

You need to avoid putting her in situations where she responds with aggression, forget about off leash walking for now and concentrate on the important issue, her aggression. I have no idea what its like where you live regards trainers, but you need help to stop this escalating further.

the more you push her, the more she will bite, the more she bits then more she will bite, as it gets the response she wants............ for you to back off.

This is a very old way of thinking, research has moved on over time for us to understand canine behaviour much better than we did 50 yrs ago, anyone who still works by this outdated thinking should be avoided , because it usually goes hand in hand with dominance behaviour and all that rubbish.

Comparing your collies herding instinct to the domesticated dog pack theory is flawed, you bought your collie from someone who probably still very much breeds collies to do a working job, the herding traits will be bred in to them generation after generation, to keep it alive, that`s why your dog does what it does.

Domesticated dogs have inherent traits, because we breed them into them, we do not breed "pack mentality" into them, other wise we would find it difficult to live with.

not sure where i mentioned anything about punishing the dog for growling?


the dog doesnt show this behaviour in the presence of the Dobe - my choice of words perhaps not as well chosen as they could have been. I didnt mean the dog attacked him in a fight for goldie supremecy more in that the goldie obviously respects the Dobe but has no respect for his owner and therefore in humans terms sees himself 'above' the owner

I have lived all my life with dogs except for a 2 week period when I was 4 when the family was without a dog.

My collies all herd naturally, because that is what they have been deliberately bred to do for over 100 years. Dogs are NOT pack animals, they live quite happily without other dogs or with other dogs normally, however some breeds actually have been bred to be companions to humans for 1,000s of years & prefer humans to other dogs given the chance, others have been bred to be able to exist in large groups(some hunting hounds)without a problem, other breeds will not tolerate members of the same sex & breed type within their space. If dogs were truly pack animals they would only be happy in the company of other dogs, wolves, primitive wild dogs(such as African Wild dogs & not feral domesticated dogs)etc are only successful if they live in family packs. Feral dogs do NOT form cohesive packs, they are groups of dogs in which multiple births occur & also fights between same sex members in pursuit of breeding & eating rights-these births & fights do NOT occur in packs, the cohesive packs are a breeding pair & their offspring from the single annual litter in the pack.

Dogs do not deliberately set out to be aggressive, true aggression is a waste of energy for a dog, hence the multiple warning signs they instinctively give, that are sadly not understood by most dog owners. Growling is the first sign usually of a dog not being comfortable with it's situation, there are so many others like turning away, averting gaze, lip licking, body posture.......... Ignore or "punish these behaviours & the dog has no option other than be "aggressive" & snap if snapping fails than biting/gripping is the next step.

The OP had no cause to hit her dog, no one ever has, dogs do not hit each other to "put in their place" they use their paws in a manner we can incorrectly interpret as "hitting" in play 99% of the time, mine often invite other dogs to play doing this.

FYI I have owned my own dogs for over 50 years, starting when I was 8 years of age, when I bought my first GSD after saving for 2 years pocket money, birthday gifts etc etc. I have never been without a dog since. My BCs all work sheep(except my rescue failed sheepdog, who prefers the taste of mutton to working sheep) & all my dogs have done some form of activity even if it is only for fun nowadays. I worked with 100s of so called aggressive rescue GSDs whose owners have failed to understand the need for ALL dogs to have a level of training & to have their minds exercised as well as their bodies. My current dogs are 4 pedigree BCs, 2 rescue WSDs, 1 WSD x, 1 Cavalier & a Romanian street dog puppy(on foster) None of them nip or bite & never have done since being puppies, the first thing they are taught is not to mouth human flesh, not by hitting, but by being ignored when they do & rewarded when they don't, they quickly pick up that it is NOT rewarding to mouth human flesh & rewarding not to, I have a house full of lickers !

Dogs do NOT see humans as "pack" members ergo they do not see themselves "above" their humans. Dogs know humans are not dogs

Why does the Goldie not exhibit these behaviours in front of the Dobe? genuine question!

Dobermonkey - I would say this is because the Dobe speaks 'dog' and they both know each others body language so are not missing any warning signs and basically communicating between themselves. Basically another dog picks up signals the owner might not.

Most dogs don't want to be aggressive and this is often a last resort when they feel threatened or frightened , wonder if he doesn't like his collar being held ( think this is quite common) a harness might help

You say you had blood tests done but have you considered a brain scan? He is the age when it will show if anything on toward is happening.