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mjfromga
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10-05-2013, 07:41 PM
Originally Posted by Laurabehjet View Post
Sorry I do think that comment, especially the 'just a rabbit' line is pretty awful actually.

I've had rabbits as pets and they're very sweet, gentle, clever little animals but that's going in an entirely different direction.

There's a clear difference of opinion here which is never going to change, personally, to me, an animal is an animal and I think they all deserve to live their lives without fear of being tortured or terrorised regardless of its a pet, a sheep, cow, rat, whatever.

I would never allow my dog to chase another animal and think its sad that so many owners do.
Even if the animal isn't caught, he chances of it dying later from shock are pretty high if we are talking rabbits or squirrels.
I just don't think it's very nice.

I have heard that some larger dogs stalk smaller dogs, so, if I discovered that my rather large dog liked to chase and kill things I would muzzle her.
Maybe the chances of her harming a small dog would be very slim but it would make me feel better.

Edit - chase for fun, to satisfy a predatory urge there i mean.
As I have been thinking about training Penelope to work sheep, which would mean chasing another animal!
Like I was saying before, we don't "allow" our dogs to chase everything. My dogs stay in my yard and other animals need to stay OUT of my yard.

If I see a cat or something, I'm sure to chase it away or leash the dogs... but you can't always see what's lurking.

Why would I muzzle my dog in my own yard? I don't really see the sense in that. I have a large adult dog now, had a large dog before this one and my puppy is going to grow up to be a large dog. I've also had large dogs before all these dogs. Never owned a small dog.

I've only had large dogs. None of them have killed any small dogs. My previous Lab mix did bite a Chihuahua, but it ran out of it's yard and bit his foot badly first, drawing blood. Never killed or hurt any puppies or small dogs, otherwise.

I don't like my dogs to terrorize wildlife, and I don't even like for my puppy to terrorize my cat (though this goes both ways) but it happens. My dog has only killed one wild animal, and it was because the animal had no escape. I doubt there are many people whose dogs just savage everything in sight....

BTW, I apologize for the rabbit comment, it was mean and out of line. I understand your feelings towards wildlife and they are genuine... but I think you're trying to protect the wildlife as much as other dogs, when the OP seems mainly concerned about other dogs etc.
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Julie
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10-05-2013, 08:33 PM
We did try muzzling old Benny dog to stop his murderous side, did no good he would still catch them and then batter them to death with the muzzle and his feet. We found it quicker for the rabbit to be caught properly he was a very quick effective killer.

I am very against hunting but the rabbits he caught we couldn't have predicted would be where he found them. Duncan was a yorkshire terrier and he ignored rabbits but would lose his head if he saw or smelt a rat, and knew just what to do with them when he caught them usually one quick shake and the rat was dead. Again we didn't encourage him but if a rat came in or was around the area he would get it.
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Jen
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10-05-2013, 08:36 PM
As others have said dogs can distinguish between prey and other dogs. Mine even distinguish between pet prey my chickens, parrot, hamster, rabbit etc and wild prey pheasants, rabbits, rats, mice etc.

It's all about management. I don't allow mine to chase wildlife although Bandit does take the odd rat here and there when they wander into my garden...

However none of mine have ever transferred this desire on to small dogs.

These things happen but be prepared to put a lot of work in to practicing recall around rabbits and other small game so that it doesn't happen again.
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Sara
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10-05-2013, 09:59 PM
My sister's Westie, and my Mom's Bichon killed a bunny the other day... They must have teamed up cornered it, and my Mom spotted Zoe carrying the bunny away in her mouth... They were horrified! I had to laugh, because Zoe must have been soooo proud of herself! and Zoe needs those moments (A puppy mill breeder dog with paranoia issues) but it's ingrained in most dogs to chase/kill prey, even fluffy little lapdogs.
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Niccie
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11-05-2013, 12:07 AM
To echo others, I don't think there is a connection between small dogs and rabbits. We might view them as a similar size but to a dog they are too different things!!

There is also a difference between wild rabbits and pet rabbits!

To add to the side argument, I never let my dog chase things out and about (to be fair he doesn't anyway) but my cat was chased into the garden by a bigger tom cat who has been picking on her (I have told her not to leave the garden) and I ran to the backdoor with the dog who chased it out.
My dog and cat sleep curled up together, are fine together. He has no issues with cats in the street but not ones coming into our garden.
They sense more than we give them credit for sometimes!
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Apache
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11-05-2013, 06:21 AM
Even highly trained police dogs succumb to their prey drive instincts, it is part of a dogs DNA to hunt/kill. It's the result of thousands of years of survival evolution and as much as we like to think of pet dogs as benign friendly animals, the instinct to chase prey is always there.

'I'd had him for so long, he was like family': Pet owner heartbroken after police dog chasing suspects through gardens stops off to maul her pet rabbit George to death
13-year-old rabbit died in arms of owner, Melissa Richardson, 20
North Yorkshire Police said dog had 'acted on its natural instincts'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2SxiXa7CS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on [a social network]
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catrinsparkles
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11-05-2013, 06:52 AM
Originally Posted by Apache View Post
Even highly trained police dogs succumb to their prey drive instincts, it is part of a dogs DNA to hunt/kill. It's the result of thousands of years of survival evolution and as much as we like to think of pet dogs as benign friendly animals, the instinct to chase prey is always there.

'I'd had him for so long, he was like family': Pet owner heartbroken after police dog chasing suspects through gardens stops off to maul her pet rabbit George to death
13-year-old rabbit died in arms of owner, Melissa Richardson, 20
North Yorkshire Police said dog had 'acted on its natural instincts'


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2SxiXa7CS
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on 'another site'
And that dog will have been feeling primed for chase and adrenalin running high...just like a pack of dogs. Not surprising that it couldn't revisit a rabbit right in front of it. Dogs are are not robots and they do do things that we haven't trained them to do and even do things we've specifically trained them not to sometimes!
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Gemini54
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11-05-2013, 07:04 AM
Hi As rabbits are prey animals,they do go into shock and die,so your poodle may have only sniffed it thought it interesting and picked it up like a soft toy.So I know its horrible but it was probably an accident,I don't think your dog has turned into Demon Dog and has probably forgotten about it.Greyhounds are trained and it takes them a while to learn to run after a lure.Gemini54
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lizzy tee
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11-05-2013, 08:15 AM
Originally Posted by Wyrekin View Post
As others have said dogs can distinguish between prey and other dogs. Mine even distinguish between pet prey my chickens, parrot, hamster, rabbit etc and wild prey pheasants, rabbits, rats, mice etc.

It's all about management. I don't allow mine to chase wildlife although Bandit does take the odd rat here and there when they wander into my garden...

However none of mine have ever transferred this desire on to small dogs.

These things happen but be prepared to put a lot of work in to practicing recall around rabbits and other small game so that it doesn't happen again.
Yes, this is what I'm trying to determine, whether the dog definately regards rabbits as a "prey" animal and not just a small animal. Thanks.
In any case, I don't think I will let her play with small dogs for the time being, until I'm absolutely sure. Better safe than sorry.
Incidently, there was no chase involved! She was trotting along beside me, we turned a corner and the rabbit was there, hiding in the grass. Then the horror. She looked at it for a second, then she expertly, as if it was something she'd done a hundred times, grabbed it by the back of it's neck and shook it, not even in a voilent or frenzied way, but quite calmly! Horrible! I called her and she ran a short distance passed me then stopped, I called her again and she ran to me and proudly threw the dead rabbit at my feet! I put her back on the lead, not sure whether to chastise her for grabbing the poor thing or praise her for dropping it.
This happened around midday and I saw 3 more rabbits afterwards. A lot of rabbits, I thought, for that time of day.
I always keep my eyes open for any animals that are around and put her on the lead if there are. Not only do I not want her killing, but I don't want her chasing stuff either. Who knows where a chase could end up! In the road! Or too far away and her getting lost! Daren't risk it. A cat can take care of itself, if cornered, I think a dog might come off worst! And a squirrel would probably make it to tree. But the chase before hand, could lead anywhere!
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catrinsparkles
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11-05-2013, 08:26 AM
Originally Posted by lizzy tee View Post
Yes, this is what I'm trying to determine, whether the dog definately regards rabbits as a "prey" animal and not just a small animal. Thanks.
In any case, I don't think I will let her play with small dogs for the time being, until I'm absolutely sure. Better safe than sorry.
Incidently, there was no chase involved! She was trotting along beside me, we turned a corner and the rabbit was there, hiding in the grass. Then the horror. She looked at it for a second, then she expertly, as if it was something she'd done a hundred times, grabbed it by the back of it's neck and shook it, not even in a voilent or frenzied way, but quite calmly! Horrible! I called her and she ran a short distance passed me then stopped, I called her again and she ran to me and proudly threw the dead rabbit at my feet! I put her back on the lead, not sure whether to chastise her for grabbing the poor thing or praise her for dropping it.
This happened around midday and I saw 3 more rabbits afterwards. A lot of rabbits, I thought, for that time of day.
I always keep my eyes open for any animals that are around and put her on the lead if there are. Not only do I not want her killing, but I don't want her chasing stuff either. Who knows where a chase could end up! In the road! Or too far away and her getting lost! Daren't risk it. A cat can take care of itself, if cornered, I think a dog might come off worst! And a squirrel would probably make it to tree. But the chase before hand, could lead anywhere!
I would have thought that the fact there was no chase either showed that she recognised it as a rabbit and therefore prey .... ..... So I would see that as more evidence that she is highly unlikely to do it to a small dog. If your dog had given chase and grabbed it you might be able to say that it was the running action that triggered it, and that running little dogs might trigger it too. Having said that my Staffie has chased a rabbit before then seen a tiny dog in the distance and sprinted to it in the same way.....but stopped quite a bit before she is near them as she see it better and realises its a dog...and then wanders off with no interest.

If you are really worried just pop your dog on lead when you see smaller dogs and watch your dogs body language. I always put my young bull lurcher on lead when we see small dogs, initially because I wanted to be sure he wouldn't get confused and want to chase them. Now I do it because he tend to get over excited and smack them on the head in attempt to play with them. He is 26 inches at the shoulder now so too big to be doing that to tiny dogs!
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