Trick training - pointless or fun?

Cain completed his 6 week Foundation training course last week, where we covered sit, down, leave it, lead walking, recall, stay and attention basics. This week he attended his first Beyond Basics class which is done as a drop in class, paid per session. However we were the only people who turned up!!!! LOL. It was unusual, must have been the heat or something.

Anyway, it meant that Cain and I got a totally brilliant one to one training session at a bargain price! We started to move on his behaviours and started work on sit at my side, off lead heel work, down from a standing position, extended stays and out of sight stays. Then, just messing around I showed the dog trainer a trick we'd been working on, wave. Once he knew I was interested in tricks he went on a roll and we started play bow, turning head left and right and shaking coresponding paws. At this point his wife told us, jokingly, to get on with some proper work! She said Dave loves trick training but, while not against it, thought it a bit pointless. It got me thinking....

I don't see the difference between tricks and proper training, the dig certainly doesn't know what a proper command is and what us just fun. It's all about making the dog think and working together. Tricks still stimulate the dog, I think it's harmless fun which has it's place alongside formal training.

However it does irk me when people ONLY train tricks. I have a 'friend' with a hyper, fat, understimulated, never walked Lab. This dog can shake and crawl, cute things, but pulls like train on the lead and jumps up like a kangaroo on drugs. They won't put the work in on 'boring' things, they can't see that they are essential life skills, but will train her to shake and roll over

On the other extreme I know a woman so intensly into her competition level obedience that she'd never waste her tine on silly tricks.

I think tricks have their place as long as you also train the vital every day commands, it's just another way to bond and have fun with your dog. My ultimate goal is to teach Cain to bring me a beer from the fridge seriously, I have a book that tells me how lol!

So what do you think? Tricks - good clean fun or a waste of time?

Pointless.

Personally I think they're good fun We start our 'proper' training classes on Thursday (We're aiming for our first KC good citizen certificate, I'm so excited!) but whenever I am training Molly on my own I usually use 'tricks' like 'shake' and 'roll over' to warm up because she finds them easy and they seem to focus her attention on me and get her zoned in. I've also used them when some of my friends who are a bit anxious of dogs have come over. Seeing her do 'cute' things seems to make them less nervous around her which makes Molly more relaxed around them too

I do agree that it is important to do 'proper' training too though. Tricks are all well and good and sometimes come in handy (Like the time Molly got a bone stuck in her paw or when we went to the vets and he wanted to take a look at her belly) but it's really important for dogs to know the basics like sit, stay, recall and how to walk nicely on lead too Having a dog that can do tricks but isn't 'trained' is like having a child who can do handstands but doesn't know how to say please and thank you!

Tricks are good fun, but obviously not all dogs need to learn.
I think they can help develop the bond between dog and handler. In the end it doesn't matter if they never learn a trick, so its easier to be relaxed and just have fun together.
Some tricks can be useful. Dale's very obliging about shutting doors for me.

Obedience competition style is tricks----I think it is fun. Dog enjoys it handler enjoys it and the possibilties are endless.

It puts the relationship with the dog on a different level, I have done many activities with mine but none are as stretching as the HTM. Some are as much fun---the gundog stuff is great but easier than I thought it would be. It is channelling an instinct where the tricks are sometimes going against the dogs natural behaviours.

It tends to help the dogs concentration for other things as well.

rune

I think the problem is when people see the two things as different

Sit is the first ever trick I teach a dog
walking nicely on the lead and waiting for petting and the door being opened are all important tricks

You have 'life tricks' that the dog has to know
'useful tricks' like calmly showing tummy to the vet to check stitches
Fun tricks - that are great to help children who are scared of dogs
Tricks that teach a dog how to use its body - like hind end awareness
Tricks that help rehabilitate after injury
Tricks that expand the mind
Tricks that increase your bond and understanding of your dog
Tricks that tire out a dogs mind when it is on cage rest

........
I wont go on
I love tricks, everything is a trick

The most important thing to me is my dog loves doing tricks.
His main training is agility but if we don't have a show on a Sunday I go to the local club and do a class. In one session we cover basic and slightly harder obedience, tricks, rally work and sometimes scent. I also think it increases the bond with the dog and I love giving both our brains something Sun different to do. It helps that the trainer is a cut above the rest and loves it more than we do I think. Lol!

"I love tricks, everything is a trick" - I agree.

I was discussing this with my fellow instructor the other day. We are considering running a course (follow on from puppies) based entirely on 'tricks'.

When you think about it 'tricks' are based on the more traditionally taught exercises - 'give a paw', 'wave', 'high five' all start with a good sit. If the dog sits and bounces straight back up then he can't do the trick, so teaching a 'wave' encourages the owner to get a steady sit. 'Crawl', ' roll over' 'play dead' need a reliable 'down'. 'Walk back' needs a good 'stand' etc, etc.

The great thing about 'tricks' is that owners enjoy them. They have fun when training, therefore their dogs have fun. I find that most owners are more generous with rewards when teaching tricks - possibly they see them as more difficult than basic exercises and therefore more worthy of reward.

I don't teach 'obedience' I teach 'good manners' so owners who come to me are unlikely to be going onto competitive work - some do and we are happy to teach them accurate sits, presents, close heel work etc - but the majority just want a dog who is not too much of a yob, who won't leap up at everyone or steal food from passing children etc. Basically, a dog who is a pleasure to be around. With these type of dogs 'tricks' are a very useful way of motivating owners to practise.

So - no, they are not pointless, they can be a great way of helping owners and dogs have fun together.

Re the OP - it is bad that the owner doesn't walk her dog, and has let him get overweight but the way I look at it is that at least she is doing something with him. Without his tricks he would possibly be doing nothing which would be a terrible waste.

Val

I do work for DogAID (a charity who helps disabled owners train their own dogs to assistance dog if they want to) and getting a beer from the fridge (or washing from the bedrooms) is the sort of thing we would help them to train. In that scenario would you still consider it a 'trick'? Well yes it is, in the same way that a 'sit' is a trick.

My point is one person's trick is another person's 'behaviour'. Have a think about all the 'behaviours' that a dog has to know before he can be taught the 'trick' of collecting a beer. There are quite a few!

Val

I believe the more you train your dog, especially if the dog is involved in the learning process (clicker training, freetime) the stronger the bond between you and the dog becomes.