Thankyou for drawing my attension to this article, very interesting, makes me wonder how something that is comming out as so wrong is so popular as C M.

Indeed. I found this paragraph particularly interesting:

“This study highlights the risk of dominance-based training, which has been made popular by TV, books and punishment-based training advocates,” Herron said. “These techniques are fear-eliciting and may lead to owner-directed aggression.”

The study is American, so I can only think the TV reference is refers directly to CM.

But you don't have to be aggressive to show dominance, Cesar actually says its about being calm & assertive which is what most of his techniques are based on.

Not being funny, JuniorDaddy, but I don't think you've absorbed the whole ethos behind the study. The many "dominant" behaviours covered by the study embrace most, if not all, of CMs techniques.

I rest my case - the rest is up to you.

There are links to other studies on the page to which I linked - including how dominance theory has now been scientifically proven not to work, and how aggressive dogs can be created by various random factors in their upbringing by naive or poor training.

If you choose not to read them, then that's your prerogative and choice. If you choose not to take on board the results from extensive studies done by worldwide authorities, that's also your choice, but you may find yourself challenged from time to time by others who have read, learned, inwardly digested and had the experience... you may expect some confrontation.

CM spouts calm and assertive in every episode, but in reality he displays "his will" over all the dogs he visits with brutality and force.

AHHHHH, I'm sorry to say it again but this is not true so please stop saying it! Disagree with his methods but don't use falsities to back yourselves up!

I must say I have been on the end of alot of stick but I do not agree with this. I've read plenty of other topics aswel as got involved on this & think its a great forum. Its just not a very friendly topic!

Sorry, JD , I see it as it is... if you choose to see it differently thats your perogative, I see cruelty abuse in many many of his episodes ., I disagree with his methods and I am entitled to voice my perception of his behaviour , just like you are.

Dont tell me to stop saying anything, I say what I see, no falsities or misinterpretations...

After all you cant misinterpret a dog being strung up till he chokes........a dog being thrown into an alpha roll...can you...




The words emotive, not unfriendly... this subject and trainers like him will always provoke strong opinions.... from both sides.

The thing I can't understand is: If his calm assertive energy is enough, why does he use prong collars, check chains, webbing collars right behind the ears and electric collars? He'd save himself soooo much bad press.. but perhaps his methods don't work on some dogs without these tools? If so, perhaps he should explain his use of these products properly without pretending that it's his 'energy' that gets the results.

A long time ago, when I was little, I saw some bad trainers and people using some bad methods. They just showed that anyone could train a dog using force, even complete amatures, and I think this is why CM gets his following from - those that perhaps haven't known dogs for long, and get results through using check chains and yanking their dogs around (of course there are some that employ some of his kinder methods, after reading his book, but I would hazard that those are in the minority). Anyone can train like that - it's not clever, not kind, and it's far more engaging to train a dog to do what you want it to do, because it wants to.

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I've kept out of this particular CM thread, but I have to dive in at this point ... in a semi-defence of Cesar. He does NOT use prong collars, check chains or electric collars as a matter of routine. What he does do ... wrongly IMO ... is to say that if one of his human clients are using, for instance, a check chain (I personally HATE them), then he will not wade in and say "you must not use such a device". Why he follows this trend, I don't know. It would be far better if he said "chuck that foul contraption in the bloody bin, I will teach you how to get your dog to walk to heel without a painful item of torture".

As far as the Illusion collar goes, I agree with what you have said, but it is not fair to say that CM advocates the use of chokes, prongs and electric collars ... that is a gross exaggeration of the truth. His methods work absolutely fine without the use of ANY gadgets - even a simple lead. My boy will walk to heel without ANY constraining device whatsoever, my only tool being my voice and calm, assertive energy ... even walking past loose chickens, a good test IMO of any dog's obedience.