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Barbara
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Location: Long Island, New York
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26-06-2004, 04:53 AM

Muzzling ALL dominant breed dogs

This "group" (cult IMO)has been posting these muzzle your dogs messages all over dog boards and I wanted to know what people here and owners of dominant dogs thought of it. It sounds ludicrous to me because if you train your dog and socialize it, it will be a safe dog. Muzzles IMO will only create mistrust of dominant breeds and the degenerates with the unsafe dogs won't be muzzling, only the responsible people with nice dogs will pay. What does anyone think of this:

6-24-04
The future is now!

Years ago when we heard rumors that specific breeds were going to be outlawed, we didn’t believe it. But we allowed it because these weren’t the breeds we had, but now we are faced with a new law and because it could effect everybody, everybody is up in arms. Well cry all you want, try to stick up for your rights, but right is right and the law is the law.
Now what you should be up in arms about is the fact that for years trainers have used prey and apprehension and sold it to you as defense for your family. Prey and apprehension is not defense, only defense is defense. If your dog bites someone you will probably end up in court and if you cannot prove that your dogs were defending you from certain harm, you will lose.
Defense of ourselves and our homes is all we have. If this is what you want then you should train in that manner. Demand that your trainer work on a true defensive protocol, alarm, challenge, threat display and engagement only in defense of you.
Think about it. What is more important and what is more valuable, that your dog bite someone, or your dog defend you. Lets think about Judge Judy, in the eyes of the law, what will cost you less in pain and money, that your dog defend you or bite someone. Think about this, it is a fact that once we teach a dog to bite it is classified a dangerous dog, weather its bitten anyone or not, I repeat by law once you teach a dog to bite it is a dangerous dog. So you can plainly see your starting out behind the eight ball.
Now just think about this, how many dogs do you suppose have been taught to bite in the last 10 years, that are still out here, and with the epidemic of sport training, with their prey, pursuit and bite , how many more in 5 years will be out and about? What percentage of the people who own these dogs are responsible law abiding citizens? With these numbers in mind action needs to be taken. Now we all think that we have the right to bare arms and walk around with a “ bad dog”,but we don’t want guys walking down main street with there gun in their hand, because of the potential danger. So at least put that gun in a holster. I look at the muzzle as a holster.
I think we should all agree that all dangerous dogs should be muzzled in public, that does not apply to your home, but only in public. That is at least reasonable, but some of us will never give in to that and so we will all be forced to muzzle our dogs .If this will in any way make the community safer, then I say yes to the muzzle law.
The best bite is no bite, dogs can be taught to defend without being taught to bite. I know thats hard to believe, so over time you will be convinced of it because the muzzle law is in our future.
Consider this also, the term “ Sporting dogs” is by definition, a dog that is taught to fight for the entertainment of human beings. That sounds very close to what the sport dog world is all about. It won’t take long until this definition is applied to dog sport. Be wise and learn the law, put it in your mind and in your training, get understanding and seek other ways and methods of training.
Its easy to talk the talk, but you must also be able to walk the walk. In light of this, Rock of Ages Kennel and the PPDA will no longer teach or encourage dogs to bite, this policy will be put in effect at the beginning of the 2005 season. Beginning in the 05 season all PPDA titles and trials, including demonstrations will be done in the muzzle. At Rock of Ages Kennel we have already suspensed teaching dogs to bite, but because people have already commitied to our title trials and championship in Sept, we will honor there commitment and go with our usual format. But in the upcoming season the PPDA and Rock of Ages Kennel would challenge any and all trainers and organizations to follow our lead, if they can, and if they cannot, they need to learn how, because time is running out.
Until next time,
The best bite is no bite.
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Shadowboxer
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26-06-2004, 06:01 AM
Bad grammar...Bad spelling...Bad punctuation...Bad logic
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bellaluna
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26-06-2004, 06:31 AM
Hi Barbara

What nonsense

As you say yourself, the people that SHOULD (if the "law" was made) muzzle their dogs wouldn't and it would have no use.

And as you also said if you socialize a dog from puppyhood then you won't have these problems. It really annoys me, that we who have our pets in a responsible way is being hazzled because of those who don't know what having a dog is all about!
Like this guy in my staircase. He has an Amstaff Bullterrier (I think, thats what it look like anyway) puppy, its not that old (it hasn't started lifting its hindleg yet) and that dog is someday gonna hurt someone (hopefully his owner and not an innocent person). The guy plays his music so loud, you can hear it 500 meters away (the dog is in the appartment) and they smoke pot in there (I'm getting a little buzz just walking past the door!) and he has no clue about training the dog. Yesterday I saw him (from my window) kick the dog because it wouldn't stand still while he untangled its leash (its never off leash outside) and he keeps putting his arm in its face trying to get it to bite! Jerk is all I can say. He is hanging with what you could say "bad elements" so bad, that when I complain over noise I don't want him to know who I am, as I don't want a visit during the night. Its kind of scary!

Jeanette
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gordon lover
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26-06-2004, 08:24 AM
If I got it right they are accusing trainers of training the Sch and IPO dogs?

If that is the truth then they must not know anything at all about working and training dogs in this area. Before the dog can enter any type of competitions concerning Schutzhund (and IPO I believe) he must first pass and gain the BH title. The BH is from tthe word Begleithund, which means Companion Dog. The Begleithund test consistes of basic obedience, in Germany and Switzerland there is tracking in the BH2 and BH3 (there is no BH2 and BH3 in America), and most importantly in the BH1 the dog must complete a Traffic-Steadyness trial on a pass or fail basis.

Look at this site to see what the dog must do for the BH title http://www.clackamasschutzhundclub.com/bh.html

These people are uninformed. The nonsense in that text was overwhelming.
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Bon
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26-06-2004, 10:24 AM
Well I have heard that Rock of Ages have week nerved dogs that won't do a bit and run off the training field soooooo.......

Anyway I have a very dominant dog and I don't have to or want to put a muzle on her. I have spent a great deal of time training and socializing her so she would be well behaved in public.
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Bon
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26-06-2004, 10:30 AM
The guy plays his music so loud, you can hear it 500 meters away (the dog is in the appartment) and they smoke pot in there (I'm getting a little buzz just walking past the door!)
LMAO Jeanette :P
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Barbara
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26-06-2004, 02:09 PM
Excellent link Gordonlover, thanks I've heard they have no control over their dogs. Someone said at a dog event, one of their dogs dragged it's owner across the field and into a mud puddle, LOL They have canis panthers. Scary. Yes, they are against sport people.

I don't want to muzzle my dogs either. Good points Bon Why should we who do the work to make our dogs safe have to exhibit them like savages in muzzles?
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bellaluna
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26-06-2004, 09:10 PM
Well if you ever need a buzz Bon just come on over
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Meg
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27-06-2004, 06:59 AM
Who would decide the 'Dominant Breeds' and why? I know a Rottie who is an absolute sweety and would hide if you said boo! My sister was once bitten by a small terrier (won't say what breed) which ran out from under a gate..in all breeds some dogs are passive some dominant..it is wrong to class all of a breed as one type
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Bon
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27-06-2004, 10:56 AM
I would hate to go out in public with a muzzle on Zoi. I could just see me being allowed at one of my sidewalk cafes with a muzzled up dog with all the familes are their kids about.
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