Azz, did you read any of the info previously given in the links regarding the history of alpha, Mech, etc?

Wys
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Hi Wys thank you I hadn't noticed the dead link but have corrected it now.

I am very impressed with the work of Semyonova, she makes a lot of sense to me and has arrived at the same conclusions that many of us have over the years, that the whole concept of a human owner being the head or 'Alpha' of the pack and needing to show a dog who is boss is seriously flawed. You might as well say a farmer is the bull to his cows, the ram to his sheep or the cockerel to his chickens , how silly does that sound.

We are all constantly learning, if we weren't we would still think the earth was flat . Our knowledge of canine behaviour has progressed considerably over the last few years, unfortunately there are still a number of people who have still to accept the newer findings including a TV entertainer from the USA .

you mean it isn't I thought it was carried on the backs of 4 elephants on top of a giant turtle!
Becky

Il chelonian mobile!!!!!! Keep the faith.

It sounds - a bit odd, Mini, I have to say

Meant to add Mini that there is a symposium coming up for those interested, where this lady is speaking! It's http://www.ukrcb.org/symposium.htm

Apparently she's not only an animal behaviourist but has BSc’s in both Social and Behavioural Science and MSc in Social Anthropology, so a very interesting person I would imagine to hear speaking.

Wys
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I'd agree with what Ben and Tassle have suggested with a few variations perhaps ... you firstly do great to manage the situation, and as you say being human you just got distracted.

I'd either distract (ringing the doorbell often does it ) or sacrifice the item if it's not dangerous or else use a lead to loop calmly over the head .

I think, IMO (not criticising) is that she may have got defensive because you said No, probably with certain body language...she may even see that as a cue to confrontation.

Do you feel her ignoring your command/guarding was something you had to tackle by pinning or did you do it as you felt she needed punishment, or were you afraid she may have taken something dangerous?
Would you have considered walking away?

What can also work is a really special treat (eg, tripe sticks?) which I play find in the kitchen with my own dog, I call her and we both get Very Excited, she's allowed to accompany me to the cupboard and help me get the bag, with lots of excitement and she sees the Getting of the Stick as a huge bit of fun and reward ... that for us always overtakes anything else (even a bit of cheese wrapper she found once) and you may find the same, for example if you got her into such a game you could then, when she had the problem item, just say normally "Let's get the tripe stick) and I would expect if your body language was normal you'd find she'd go for it.

Another thing I've noticed is that if you get a dog into the habit of something, and repeat it daily then that often seems to totally overcome almost anything else, the tripe stick we have fun with daily

As humans we sometimes make things more of a problem by A) showing dogs we think they have a huge resource and B) using slighly confrontational body language or angry/warning tones which IME make things 10 times worse

Wys
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Wys
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Firstly this is not an everyday occurance...

In this case, I was worried there maybe something dangerous in the bin that she should not have, so yes. I thought I should deal with her. She has had a problem with food aggression since she was a tiny puppy. We have worked on it, dropping treats into the food bowl, feeding by hand, scatter feeding and otherwise made the foodbowl itself not the most valuable resource in the world. She is now fine about her food bowl and though I do not take her bowl away, I am not afraid that I could not if I need to.

Kismet has to be kept calm where food is concerned, if you get her excited or wound up with food 'playing with a tripe stick' for example, she immediately seeks out and attacks the other dogs to move them away from the yummy treat. If no other dogs, she will get agitated and attack her own tail. We combat this by staying calm around treats and all dogs have to take turns and leave it when the others have their treats. She is fine if there is no obvious excitement or confrontation.

However, in the event she oversteps the mark or gets over excited I have found only holding her until she calms down seems to work..."time out" in another room made her run in and attack the other dogs when released from the other room, having a house lead on got caught on things and seemed too dangerous...

I stress again, she was a very angry little puppy, but at a year old, we very very rarely (almost never) have any incidents, we are careful around food, but in all other respects, she's just fine. I gave this example because it was an incident that arose recently and I am genuinely interested to see if there is something else - outside of the 'alpha' type training that we have been using with her so far.

ETA: I am definitely going to try 'ringing the doorbell - well knocking on the door shuld a similar situation arise. Non food distraction might be just the thing, then lead on while we go clear up... Hopefully wont be another slip, but I'lllet you know how it goes if we do...

My only fear with her is that she'll get like this around something like a child's dropped ice cream and come into conflict with a child... I don't want to keep putting her in dangerous situations so that we can train her to avoid them, but I'd like to break her of this completely so we don't have to keep watching her.

Hi guys : i've been very ill with flu since Sunday night, and have just come on here for a few secs. It's really great to see there are loads more postings, all very interesting. The old brain is too muzzy at the moment to comment, but I have picked out the following that I think Wolfdog made :

"Personally I have little interest in CM, but he seems to offer something that people find is good for them. I would never be remotely interested in kicking my dog or strangling it and it makes me think he has little idea or control of these 'problem animals'."

CM does not kick dogs, nor does he strangle them !! Do you think I would use such training methods ? I am a HUGE dog lover, and would NEVER do anything to hurt my dog and I take great umbrage at your words !! CM does NOT kick dogs, he nudges them with his foot, and he does not strangle them !! I agree with you I do not like the illlusion collar, I do not like gadgets of any kind, preferring to train my dog in a natural way. The only gadget I would use is a muzzle if I had a red zoner, or if my dog was terrified of the vet for instance. CM has saved the lives of probably hundreds of dogs in the States, dogs that would otherwise have been destroyed. You forget that.

I'll go back to bed now, just wanted to redress your inaccurate statement Wolfdog !!

Wys hi : one thing I picked out from one of your posts before I go back to bed :

you made a suggestion about rewarding with treats? I absolutely don't like treat training. I know several people who do this, and their dogs are constantly nuzzling at their pockets. In addition, it is one more thing I have to remember to have on me at all times - you've got to be consistent in your training methods and invariably I would have forgotten the damn treats ! I like to keep my life simple, the reward for Tai is praise from me, that's enough for him. To give an example of treat training, every time we go to the pub now, if someone is rustling a packet of crisps he's off to say hello and drool all over them, unless I am alert and manage to stop him ! All because a woman fed him some doggie treats the other day, and a man gave him some Porkie Scratchings, which he loves. Not everyone loves dogs, and it means now that I have to be on constant alert that he is not pestering someone. He's always on his lead in the pub now because of this, but he still pesters people nearby. I hate this desire to be obedient just because he is a getting food. I want my dog to be obedient because I want him to be obedient, because I am boss.

Defo off to bed now !!