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Jet&Copper
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06-07-2012, 08:44 PM
Originally Posted by Luthien View Post
In reply to original OP, I would say a dog's natural diet is what it has been over the last few hundred years. Which is a bit of everything. - raw, cooked, scraps etc. Anything it can get.

I really wish people would chill a bit. What would you think is a human's natural diet?
My natural diet is crisps and ice cream
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Luthien
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06-07-2012, 08:46 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
My natural diet is crisps and ice cream
Then I am having a "natural" diet too!
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Jen
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06-07-2012, 08:47 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
Yep this idea that natural equals best always confuses me. All these years of scientific advancement yet people want to "go back to nature." Half of us (and our dogs) wouldn't be here if things were left to nature.
If we were going completely back to nature then dogs as we have them now wouldn't exist therefore there would be no need for this discussion or forum infact .

I feed two of mine on raw and two on kibble. Even the kibble varies as I can get away with mixing one of my boys kibble with slightly less quality kibble but the other needs high quality stuff or he gets itchy. Dogs are so variable because of mans input there are suitable diets but not necessarily any specific diet that can be called natural.
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PB&J
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06-07-2012, 08:48 PM
Originally Posted by Luthien View Post
Then I am having a "natural" diet too!
I favour white wine and Double Deckers.
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Jen
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06-07-2012, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by PB&J View Post
I favour white wine and Double Deckers.
Swap the wine for ale and I'm with you there!
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Jet&Copper
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06-07-2012, 08:50 PM
Originally Posted by Wyrekin View Post
If we were going completely back to nature then dogs as we have them now wouldn't exist therefore there would be no need for this discussion or forum infact .

I feed two of mine on raw and two on kibble. Even the kibble varies as I can get away with mixing one of my boys kibble with slightly less quality kibble but the other needs high quality stuff or he gets itchy. Dogs are so variable because of mans input there are suitable diets but not necessarily any specific diet that can be called natural.
Precisley my point

Dogs generally aren't bred based on their ability to tolerate certain diets. Would be an interesting study in evolutionary genetics should one undertake one tho!
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pippam
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06-07-2012, 08:55 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
Precisley my point

Dogs generally aren't bred based on their ability to tolerate certain diets. Would be an interesting study in evolutionary genetics should one undertake one tho!
That would be a very interesting read if their were any articles or books on such a subject.
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Gnasher
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06-07-2012, 09:00 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
Hmmmm domestication most certainly does change an animals genetics. Hence why the phenotype of my spaniel differs from that of a wolf - it's genotype is different. A dogs genes dictate it to be a dog, and as dogs are man made I'm not sure they really have a natural diet.
No, not at all. Genetically, we are exactly the same as our hunter gatherer forebears. Domestication does not change genetics, domestication changes lifestyle. We are still exactly the same animal as our hunter gatherer ancestor from 2,000 years ago or our ice age ancestor from 6,000 years ago. Dog is just a word, dog is wolf, or if you want to be technical, canis lupus. Dog genes are wolf genes, and genes are everything. Domestication is the icing on the cake, it changes nothing fundamentally. Fundamentally, we are exactly the same as our ancestors emerging from the ice age thousands of years ago. Our natural diet is exactly the same as that ancestor - an omniverous diet. And the natural diet of our domesticated dog aka wolf, is a primarily carnivorous diet of raw meat.
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Gnasher
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06-07-2012, 09:03 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
Yep this idea that natural equals best always confuses me. All these years of scientific advancement yet people want to "go back to nature." Half of us (and our dogs) wouldn't be here if things were left to nature.
It's not a question of what is best, it is what is natural, what we are genetically designed to do that is everything. We have a particular type of tooth structure designed to eat an omniverous diet, which is why I personally believe that vegetarianism in homo sapiens is not healthy, because we have the teeth to tear raw meat.

Nature has to be "best" - otherwise we would not be here in the first place to be having this debate!
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Jet&Copper
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06-07-2012, 09:04 PM
Originally Posted by Gnasher View Post
No, not at all. Genetically, we are exactly the same as our hunter gatherer forebears. Domestication does not change genetics, domestication changes lifestyle. We are still exactly the same animal as our hunter gatherer ancestor from 2,000 years ago or our ice age ancestor from 6,000 years ago. Dog is just a word, dog is wolf, or if you want to be technical, canis lupus. Dog genes are wolf genes, and genes are everything. Domestication is the icing on the cake, it changes nothing fundamentally. Fundamentally, we are exactly the same as our ancestors emerging from the ice age thousands of years ago. Our natural diet is exactly the same as that ancestor - an omniverous diet. And the natural diet of our domesticated dog aka wolf, is a primarily carnivorous diet of raw meat.
You seriously misunderstand basic genetics (and evolution for that matter) Gnasher.
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