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Location: UK
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,723
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19-04-2010, 12:51 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox 
Chaz, you just said it yourself, unless you are a dog you are not going to understand if they miss them or not...so you comparing them to having your hair cut , and having to get used to a new style along with being physiologically traumatised is all speculation and imaginary on your part.
As to them losing balance and arthritis being a factor in later life due to dew claw removal.... I would just love to see the evidence of that one!!
Let me tell you from "experience " of owning breeds that have their dew claws removed, it effects them not one jot, either physiologically or physically!! they dont miss them, they dont know they had them, and they dont lack balance.... but then again, as you say, I am not a dog , so cant really know, other than owning dogs over the yrs with and without dew claws..and never have I noticed any difference between the two.
There are plenty of sport photographs showing dogs turning with their dew claws touching the ground
and the fact that mine wear them down in day to day activity shows that they use them
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Location: South Oxfordshire, England
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 4,386
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19-04-2010, 01:02 PM
Originally Posted by Jackbox
Chaz, you just said it yourself, unless you are a dog you are not going to understand if they miss them or not...so you comparing them to having your hair cut , and having to get used to a new style along with being physiologically traumatised is all speculation and imaginary on your part.
As to them losing balance and arthritis being a factor in later life due to dew claw removal.... I would just love to see the evidence of that one!!
Let me tell you from "experience " of owning breeds that have their dew claws removed, it effects them not one jot, either physiologically or physically!! they dont miss them, they dont know they had them, and they dont lack balance.... but then again, as you say, I am not a dog , so cant really know, other than owning dogs over the yrs with and without dew claws..and never have I noticed any difference between the two.
Dewclaws may contribute to improved balance, too
Dewclaws are another &equently amputated dog part that are often thought to be use¬less, but in fact, the front dewclaws do have a purpose says Chris Zink, DVM, PhD. "The function of front dewclaws is to prevent torque on the leg," she says. "There are five tendons attaching the dewclaw to five muscle bundles, supporting this function¬ality. When a dog is running, the dewclaw comes into contact with the ground. If the dog needs to turn, the dewclaw digs into the ground to support the lower leg and pre¬vent torque."
"The rear dewclaws are vestigial in most breeds; that is not true for the front dew¬claws, which should be more correctly called digits or thumbs," says Dr. Zink. She works exclusively with performance dogs and has found that if a dog doesn't have dewclaws, the leg will twist when turning, which applies significant pressure on the leg. to the toes. carpus, elbow, and shoulders. The repeated twisting and pressure can ultimately cause chronic painful conditions, especially carpal arthritis. "Of the over 30 dogs I have seen with carpal arthritis, only one has had dewclaws. All the others had them removed," says Dr. Zink.
http://leeola.livejournal.com/
Scroll down to find it.
Heres another,
http://www.angelfire.com/nc2/Mestena/dewclawsInjury.pdf
I also have a photo of Honey in the photo she's from a point where the dew claw would of dug into the ground and provided her with extra grip for running, and I also have a rottie photo showing the same.
So thats a thing thats misunderstood, so are you telling me that theres no way that having their wiskers taken off can affect dogs? I'd never do it, everything is there for a reason, just because people don't understand it doesn't mean that there isn't a good reason for them.
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Location: UK
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19-04-2010, 01:03 PM
In the last several years, while doing sports-medicine consultations for performance dogs across Canada and the United States, I have seen many canine athletes with carpal arthritis. Interestingly, this condition is much more common in dogs that have had their front dewclaws removed. To understand why, it is helpful to understand the structure of the carpus. This joint consists of seven bones that fit together like fieldstones that are used to build the walls of a house
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Location: UK
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19-04-2010, 01:23 PM
Originally Posted by Velvetboxers
Now that thats all out of the way
Have you any photos of your dog on here yet?
just after they have been waxed!
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Location: cheshire, uk
Joined: Jul 2009
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19-04-2010, 04:49 PM
Originally Posted by DevilDogz
Please show me where i said there was anything wrong with owning a mongrel, cross breed, or what ever it is you call them?
I grew up around all sorts of cross breeds, when my mum had them in for foster..I certainly dont have a problem with them or any one owning them..Its just simply what a refered to them as..you see even when owning cross breeds i did not have a problem with people calling them mongrels why would i? just the same as i have no problem with anyone calling my cat a moggie.
also with regards to the hairless and puffs they have TOTAL different dentition, so any judge that isnt judging FACES would know a shaved off puff a mile away i would have thought.
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Location: cheshire, uk
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 7,513
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19-04-2010, 04:52 PM
Originally Posted by chaz
How did cross breeds get brought into a thread about grooming? Although mine say a quick brush and a run please
With the removal of hair on the HH CC, if its done for showing, and those who do it, don't you ever feel like you are lying when your presenting your dog to the judge, as you've had to alter your dog to get it to conform to breed standard? I mean I know that all dogs are groomed before entering the ring, into a show clip, which I suppose that the removal of hair is a show clip to the CC, but I don't know, to me its almost like you are making the dog look better then it is, when doesn't health and temperment mean more then some extra hair? If true hairless have bad mouths shouldn't a hairy hairless still be placed higher then one even if they have extra hair? As surely the best example is one of the breed type, and healthy, extra hair to me at least does not make the dog worth any less
Also I don't know if I'm comfortable with the dogs whiskers being removed, I'd never do it, a dog senses things with its whickers, it may not be neccasary in todays world, but they have them, they've evolved with theem, and they are part of the dog, and I don't see why they should be removed, what benefits does it bring to a dog to have the whiskers removed? If it doesn't benefit the dogs I think you have to question whether it should be done, as dogs do not look horrible with them, infact I think if I were to see one without wiskers to me it would look strange, and personnaly I'd not remove them on any of my pets, a removal of wisers suely doesn't make the dogs a better example of the breed either
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Location: sunny south coast
Joined: Jan 2010
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19-04-2010, 04:53 PM
Originally Posted by lozzibear
but the labradoodle isnt a breed so the fact there is actually a labradoodle rescue, is quite shocking... there arent rescues for most other crossbreeds (i say most coz i dont know if any other 'designer' breeds have a breed specific rescue)...
No Jackbox, I don't mean that - we have always had big dogs like Collies, Labs, OESD's etc and to us they are proper dogs.
As for the critisism side I am putting MY opinion of showing as forums are here for us to PUT OUR OPINION ON, but maybe this one is petty enough that you feel if someone disagrees or has strong views on something others like then retaliation is the order of the day... that, btw doesn't work with me. I like a good debate and appreciate that people have differing views otherwise the world would be a better place. Just because I personally don't agree with showing dogs doesn't mean I want it stopped nor that the people are idiots... just as if I went on a cat forum and started slating cats i would expect their members to bay for my blood... I love cats though btw.
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Location: cheshire, uk
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19-04-2010, 04:56 PM
Originally Posted by AllyLambell
At the end of the day nothing I say will change people's misconceptions about crossbreeds and the whole reason we are all on here is because of our dogs... pedigree, crossbreed or mongrel they are all dogs and pedigrees only came about because of human interference; luckily dogs don't have any conception of bias towards pedigrees or against crosses and mongrels. I didn't get a poodle type looking doodle because if I wanted a poodle I would have got one; I wanted what we got, 2 f1s who are health tested and healthy. More importantly, they are happy and well loved; they will live with us forever and they will get the best they deserve. We don't clip their whiskers off nor cut them into poncy styles; we don't show them as they are our pets and we prefer dogs to have the life of a dog - end of...we are entitled to our opinion as are everyone else and as no-one has managed to explain why their dogs are epilatored, shaved, whiskers cut off etc then I have no reason to change my opinion.
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Location: UK
Joined: Oct 2009
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19-04-2010, 04:59 PM
Originally Posted by x-clo-x
im sorry but i find you quite rude. how dare you say my dog does not live the life of a dog because she is shown!! she lives a wonderful life! gets fed the best food, (gets brushed and that isnt torture) every day and goes for a walk every day for at least an hour. she meets doggy friends most days and has off lead runs with them, she goes swimming, she sleeps in my bed, is allowed on the sofa, and comes with me everywhere. do not say my dog does not lead a normal doggy life please.dont judge when you dont know.