[QUOTE=NOUSHKA05;2141341]cat owners really should get their emotions in check when they kill foxes to 'protect' cats ... the owners are the irresponsible ones, a) for letting their cats out in the 1st place, and b) for then killing an animal that is indiginous to the UK!

**Don't own a cat, and haven't ever said those foxes should've been shot either...Which box do I tick now then?

well yes conservationists would most definatley agree that ferals should be killed, but i'd prefer they were neutered (and conservationists agree 'any' free roaming cat is detrimental to any habitat its at large in)

**So you'd rather they were castrated and released back into the wild, to kill more of the native species you're so against them hunting. 'incredulous'

so what about the 'non ferals' then...you know your average pet allowed to roam????? cos you still havent answered yet

**you still haven't answered about the impact of other domestic or introduced species, (that are known to cause issue in other countries), on our native wildlife, along with disease, poisoning, habitat loss and climate change.

You can focuss on one piece to the exclusion of all the others if you wish. However, some of us, would like to build the puzzle.

Shame really, as in appearing to dismiss other factors so easily, you only weaken your argument, which is certainly not without basis.

fantastic post!

[QUOTE=tazer;2141499] thing is i NEVER dismiss other factors affecting our wildlife but this thread is about killing native foxes in favour of cats!....i understand all about other pressures our wild animals have to deal with

and my feelings on the feral situation is totally based on my emotions i hold my hands up to that, but by far the biggest majority of cats roaming are NOT feral and if these were kept secure then the problem could be practically solved overnight!

as it happens i brought up cat predation merely to see if those who always spout on about 'control' and 'keeing a balance' were hypocritical in their opinions......and just as i thought some are...VERY

because if its a pet then its okay for it to keep killing wildlife unchecked ...but if its a wild animal then all emotions and feelings for that animal go out the window...and they have to be 'controlled'!

now im all for controlling wildlife if its necessary, but lets face it most controls are not based on science based studies on the ecology of the area, as Boredinstroud has said the killings are unstructured and random.

There already is.If someone chooses to deer stalk for example they have sit the DS1 course which teaches them about safety,shot placement,gralloching and everything else a stalker needs to know.Even then,some Police forces impose a 'mentor' condition on the person so they can only go out when accompanied by an experienced stalker for the first half dozen or so times.

Im not sure if you're aware of this,but here in the UK you cannot just go out and buy a rifle then start shooting.There are umpteen calibres all for various reasons and the Police will want to know what you want it for before they allow you.Even then,your licence will have what you're allowed to shoot printed on it so if you cant convince them that you're safe and know what you're doing-you dont get it! For example i have .22LR which is for vermin & ground game and a .223 for fox.I also have various old rifles purely just for target shooting and has that printed on licence too.

Countryside management has always been done by people like myself who enjoy being out shooting and ask for no payment.If it was your way with 'professionals' you'd need hundreds or maybe even thousands of them to cover the UK-who would pay their wages???

Im not expecting you to change your views,but to simply see it from my side of the fence.

I can understand enyoying shooting---I also enjoy it. What sticks in my gullet is enjoying the killing. Shoot at targets or shoot in competition. To shoot and kill is different.

rune

So whats the alternative when culling has to be done? Just before you pull the trigger-heave a deep sigh,say a little prayer,shed a few tears???

You eat meat yet feel no remorse for the animals which have died to line your stomach and obviously dont give the slaughtermen a second thought either who willingly went into that line of work.Does that make them bad people too and you also because you're benfiting from their actions?

To be honest you're not really worthy of a response because you have a very simplimistic view,but you amuse me.

Once again you are making assumptions.

If you want to justify your enjoyment of killing then I don't have a problem with it.

Just don't think that everyone is silly enough to believe it.

You don't just enjoy shooting, you and others enjoy shooting to kill. Not for food but for fun.

rune

Good girl-i knew we'd get there in the end.

I'm way behind with this thread!

With ref to the original killing of the fox, I find it disgusting. The vet (who should know better) allowed his elderly cat out at night knowing it could be a potential target for urban foxes. Then he trapped and killed 2 seemingly healthy foxes simply because he assumed that one of them had killed his beloved pet. I'm sorry but thats nature and the vet should've taken precautionary measures if he didnt want his cat to become a victim.

Urban foxes can become a nuisance (although I have no reason to have a problem with any fox) but IMO it should be the mangy, unhealthy ones which are culled. The fox in the picture simply looked like a healthy dog fox, not an oversized one which is set to wreak havoc in our towns. It's scaremongering by the media and now even more people will be baying for the foxes blood (and if you dig a little deeper like people have done on wildlife forums you will discover that there is a big political element involved too, it's not just about a fox killing a pet cat).

I'm not going to get involved with the pet cat argument. I dont like cats, never have done and never will. I view them as a nuisance when they are allowed to roam and people use the 'semi-wild' clause to excuse the behaviour of a domestic animal. Folk wouldnt tolerate dogs pooing on their garden and killing the birds on their feeders yet they excuse this behaviour in cats. Oh dear, I said I wasnt going to get involved in that argument...!

I'm not against field sports or population control but I think sometimes people are too quick to get a glint in their eye when killing a wild animal is involved. If you're doing it to put food on the table or for true conservation purposes then fine. If it's about bloodlust then it disgusts me.

There are animals I believe need controlling such as grey squirrels, woodpigeons and rabbits for example and i'm happy for my dogs to catch and dispatch such animals. Whatever they catch goes into the freezer for them to eat at a later date. I do not allow them to go after foxes. Setting a canid on another canid doesnt sit well with me.

On the subject of shoots...Another thing which doesnt sit well with me is a driven shoot. The pheasants are reared purely to be shot at by a group of guns with beaters at all corners flushing the birds out towards the guns, IMO not very sporting. I know they get eaten so thats some consolation. Rough shooting sits far better with me, dog and man working together to put food on the table and the odds are fairer.

I used to be very anti killing anything until I got a breed of dog which made me rethink certain views i'd held all my life. I can now see that under certain circumstances, it's necessary and I no longer see things in a f'luffy bunny' way.

What do you class as vermin?

Out of curiosity. any gunmen I have ever known have gundogs, you dont appear to??