Recall Training

I have just taken on a 4 year old Border Collie/GSD bitch who is an absolute delight. Indoors she is brilliant and comes on command but out on the walk she suffers with "selective deafness". I kept her on an extension lead for 3 weeks and then decided to let her have her freedom on the marsh where we live. She ran off on her own for about 5 minutes (almost like a sheepdog doing an outrun) and then came back after my frantic calling and whistling in her own time. A friend has offered me the loan of a collar with a gas cylinder to help train her, has anyone any experience of using these, and if so, what successs did you have? I have tried for a further week with her on the lead and kept calling her back, which she does extremely well, but at what point do I trust her to come back when off-lead?

Hi Tedsui

I'm a dog trainer and I have used spray collars (what you have) as recall training aids. On dogs who are sensitive to them I've found they work extremely well. Some dogs however tend to ignore them. Sometimes this is size related. A gsdxbc would be roughly the right size to ignore but if she's sensitive to it she should be alright.

My preference with these training aids is to use it (with dog on line) when she ignores the recall command. So call her, she ignores, spray her then call again. Do this for a week or two on the lead first so she can't ignore it/run through it.

I would also only feed her out on a walk (nature diet is good for this) so she realises she only eats when she recalls. This will effect her on a deeper level than treats.
Before you let her off for the first time I would make sure she's had a good walk, a good play with you, and is hungry. I'd possibly starve her for 12 hours prior to letting off (maybe longer).
When you let her off occasionally call her back and enforce with the spray if she ignores you. Also make frequent changes of direction and pace so she thinks about following you more than doing her own stuff. Feed her when she recalls but not enough to satisfy her appetite (she might decied to run off if her belly's full lol).
Gradually build this up until you can return her to a normal diet and don't need the collar.

Btw I no longer use spray collars as much as I did because some dogs weren't sensitive to them and others were over sensitive. I prefer remote collars (e collars) which are more adjustable so the dog can't ignore them or be overwhelmed by them

Adam

If you haven`t trained her to recall, she won`t know what you want. You need to go back to basics, and train her to recall. Start in the house. Offer a treat, say come as she takes it. She will learn to associate the reward with the word and begin to respond.
It is important with recall to never let the dog fail - so never use your Come or whistle command unless you know she will come. Train on lead at first outside. Eventually you will have a solid recall.
You can start to phase out the rewards when the behaviour is learned, but I always reinforce now and again by using treats. This keeps the dog keen to do what you want.
Please don`t use aversives like sprays etc., especially with a sensitive cross like this. You`ll end up with an enxious, snappy dog.
Adam Palmer is an inexperienced and ineffective trainer who uses abusive methods. I wouldn`t take any advice from him.

This sounds how Jess was when I first got her.

What I did is get a tracking line and put her on it (on a harness as a collar could damage her if she comes to a halt at the end of the lead like Jess did) and hold the end and every so often (probably more than I needed to) call her back and treat. If she ignored, I would literally say come once, and then reel her in and then when she got to me, I'd say good come and treat and lots of praise.

When I plucked up the courage (over 12 months of training) and thought she was ready to be let off the lead, I dropped the training lead and let her run with it trailing behind her. I did this so if she decided she wanted to try and run past me on the recall, I could put my foot on the lead and stop her (it is a 15 meter one so lovely and long, especially when you have a fast dog to catch hehe).

The main thing that I would say when training recall is keep it positive, as negative reactions don't work (so if she doesn't come back for 5 minutes, don't punish her when she DOES come back, but praise and say "good come" or good whatever command you use when she comes, and praise and treat so she learns coming to you is a good thing).

You'll get there! Some dogs take longer than others, but keep it up and you can get a really great recall (Plus with her being a GSD/Collie cross, you have a highly intelligent dog on your hands, and probably pretty focussed, so you have a very trainable dog )

ETA - Another good thing with training recall is to make yourself much more exciting than everything else that's around. Make lots of high pitched silly sounds and if there is something that she REALLY likes - do that thing and it should help

Three weeks is no time at all for her, if she has not done recall training for the other three years of her life.

Long line or flexi lead on a harness are great for training recall outside. Make sure she recalls well from room to room in your house and from the garden into your house before you even think about asking her for recall 'out and about'

Please, please do not be tempted to use spray collar or - even worse - e-collar. These contraptions are justified as 'interrupters' of the behaviour, but in fact work on fear. A dog that is 'sensitive' to the spray is frightened by it and will return to you - or run five miles in the other direction - because she has been scared. There is no justification for training with fear when there are so many ways of training with reward.

Starving for 12 hours is a method that used to be used many, many years ago - I had no idea anyone still advised it.

My advice is to build up a good recall based on a good relationship with yourself and don't be tempted to go for the 'quick fix' methods which can be detrimental to your relationship with your lovely new dog.

I fully agree with the others about harness and long training lead and go back to basics.

Sorry I disagree with the use of sprays of any kind, we took on our lastest edition BC in April and her recall was none exsistant, with the use of the above and liver cake treats her recall is brill now. 3 weeks is nothing especailly to a older rescue, I'd never starve for 12 hours either, carry a squeaky toy in your pocket and squeak it that usually grabs thier attention, you need to build up trust between you and her and bond build.

Good luck, I would throw away any advice about starving and spray collars personally and I would never use a trainer that advocates them either

Hi,

I have nothign to add as such other than please accept the advice of those who have "properly" trained their dogs with positive, enjoyable methods.

Always praise when she comes to you and a squeaky toy, ball or treats are all ideal to keep her motivated throughout recall training.

Giove her a little more time to fully understand what you want from her and she'll be a dream dog in no time at all.

Laura xx

agree with above, but dont touch a flexi.

awful devices

Hi, congrats on your lovely new dog

Do you have any information as to her previous life or training? I just wondered - if for example she had no training then you know why she does not recall but I also like to think a little laterally and just ensure that her health, eyes, ears, etc are fine and that she is not deaf etc. Some dogs are incredibly clever and even a deaf dog may not appear deaf as they can feel vibrations etc and tend to watch body language.

Obviously this isn't going to be a common thing turning up, but it does happen at times and it's a good idea to just consider it, in case.

Other than that, I agree with the use of harness and long line, using perhaps a special toy that is only played with on special training walks as a high value reward to the dog.

So try to find out what really really "floats her boat".

IF you are into books, I'd suggest taking a peek at The Idiots guide to Dog Training by Pam Dennison
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Pos.../dp/1592574831

and maybe:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/100-Ways-Tra...ref=pd_sim_b_2

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Teach-Yourse...ref=pd_sim_b_6

Also building up the relationship and giving her a job where you can both "work" together (finding ballies, chasing ballies, etc) will soon get her attention on to you and help the whole thing.

Try hard not to keep calling her - you can NOT call her and run in the opposite direction! but if you keep calling her, she will just know where you are, and also realise that it does not matter whether she comes first time, because clearly your calling her is confirming she can return more slowly
Also, never always put her lead on at the end of a walk - practice calling her, putting lead on, andthen letting her off again.

Wys
x

Hi,

you've had some great advice here, and some not so great advice (spray, e-collar ...)... you've only had her a short time and the bond still needs to be built... if you start using these methods you will not be getting results because she wants to please you, you will be getting results because she's afraid of what will happen if she doesn't listen to you ... not a good way to start any relationship IMO.

What I find works very well is the advice about making her work for you during off-lead walks.... I use two tennis balls and a throwstick.... she knows I have them, she knows I can throw them at any moment, and so her attention stays with me... this doesn't mean we're playing ball during the entire walk.... it just means that when I notice her moving away too far,or need her to come back asap, I call her name to get her attention and say "come" and once she has returned to me I reward her by throwing a ball... oh, and I always take two balls as Tess is a star at either dropping balls in places I can't get to, or rounding up a ball (true BC style) but not actually giving it back to me.... the second ball is therefore my training tool for teaching fetch and release.... Although Tess will (now finally) do anything for treats inside the house, once we're out she has no interest in anything edible... but the ball works wonders!

good luck!