Yes I know Cain knew the person, but as I said in my post, my dog knows my best friend, she's stayed here numerous times, and yet everytime she comes, Zena goes manic at the door, even though she can SEE her standing outside from the kitchen window! I don't know the answer, all I'm saying is never assume, Cain is still young, just like Zena, he's got to be given the chance, he's got to LEARN this is not acceptable behaviour and the only person who can teach him is yourself. Remember the old saying "never put your dog in a situation YOU cannot control yourself" - never a truer word was spoken imo! YOU couldn't control that situation, the dog lunged at your friend, took hold of her clothing, the situation was definitely out of control and you put him there because you didn't act quicker. It's far, far better to be safe than sorry. I'm learning and I've had these dogs for 50 years now since I was 10 years old and Zena is my most intricate one yet, and just like you, I want to get to the stage when I can just assume she'll be ok, that'll be a nice place!

Take a step back, know in your heart that he has an issue with visitors at the moment, just like WE had here and still do to a certain extent, and keep him safe. I have to say, you are doing a grand job with him I know that, especially when out and about, but if you manage to crack it at HOME, everything will just slot into place when you're out, trust me on that, it will!

Ok, had a chance to sit down and read it all. Thank you, that's a really detailed and helpful reply. Hindsight is a wonderful thing eh? I agree, we do need to take it back a step. It's just such a shock as he has never ever displayed such behaviour at the door before. We were bigging up the big fuss by the door so that he saw strangers as a good thing. I have only in the last few days started putting him into a sit wait while I open the door to try and control his jumping up. he doesn't jump outside the house and he doesn't jump at me or my mum when we come home. He stubbornly refuses to jump while trying to train him to stop while in training class he only jumps occassionally in excitement when visitors come. Not ideal but I was pleased it was at least friendly behaviour. We could break it by not letting people get stuck at the door but telling them to walk right in and through the house and then he tends not to jump. So jumping is occassional problem and proving a little tricky to break as it's so sporadic!

We had visitors delivering treats on arrival for the first few months but since he is all wiggly at the door normally, we stopped doing that about a month ago. The door genuinely never seemed to be a problem before yesterday.

I'm worried that if I shut him away then let him out to greet a visitor he may bw more likely to react badly as he didn't see them come in and will get a shock??? I don't know if that is the case or not. Would it be better to work on a solid sit stay at the far end off the hallway? Or should I shut him totally away?

You have good days, you have bad days.....
today was a good day. In fact it was quite dull. Shamus ignored two boxers he doesn`t like, and Daisy was more interested in the ham in my hand than the train cleaner (she don`t like train cleaners!).
Tomorrow, or next week they`ll react. And will I remember the week of uneventful walks or the heart-stopping confrontation?
Yup! You`ve got it.
Two steps forward, one step back. Expect it, hun. The best thing is to calm down and look at what happened objectively as a puzzle to be solved. What could you have done? What will you do next time? But remember sometimes sh*t just happens.

I don't know if this is of any help but when Clifford was going through his really unpredictable phase, -including wanting to mouth visitors- we stopped him 'taking responsibility for the door'. This meant whether people were visiting or not was no longer his responsibility or business. So for a few weeks, when the bell went, he went into another room, sat, got a biscuit, we answered the door. When guests were settled he was allowed to meet them. another biscuit. With builders etc I just keep him in a different room.
Now he is no longer worried about whether someone is meant to be there or not- he had even had that anxiety with people he knew!

THis is related to the door ringing-hopefully he would still see off a burglar.

Clifford also had a go at more passive dogs and didnt dare have a go at the assertive ones!a coward at heart, hopefully those days are over.

Thanks C&D I am trying to take all set backs seriously as in "ok how can this be avoided next time" but also trying to not get too depressed over it. My biggest fear is that one day he may have one of his unpredictable lunges at the wrong person, be reported ad a dangerous dog and the possible outcome doesn't even bear thinking about. I'd do anything to stop him hurting another dog or person. And I think it's this fear that makes it hard to handle. I get bad at myself for not seeing the situation coming and done something to stop it. But yes also I know sometimes sh*t happen.

cliffy, I had recently decided it was a good idea to take control of the door, hence attempting a sit stay. When a delivery mam calls I do point to the living room and say In which he happily does so maybe I should do this for all visitors.

Will be interested to see what our dog trainer thinks tonight. He's had GSDs for years and says that unfortunately random lunges will probably happen if he gets a surprise because it's in his nature.

In answer to your question about putting him away, that's a no from me if it's somebody he's met before and is ok with, but I'd put him away for builders etc. just like Cliffy does. He's (Cliffy) also said about that door control situation, as YOU are in charge of that door, not Cain, although he wants to be in charge, and that is why, you have to have him somewhere behind you, so that he knows YOU are in charge of that visitor.

Maybe work on your "wait" or "stay" command, so you can get him in a nice sit and stay further up the hallway, and he MUST stay there whilst you open the door, greet the person, he then knows they're ok and don't let them get in his face, he is to be ignored so he doesn't feel threatened, and once they've come through, and he goes up to them, he can have a stroke, but don't let them overdo it, otherwise imo, you are instilling into him that the visitor is HIS, he is in charge again lol!

Try and see if what works for me works for you, arm the visitor with a slipper or something and if he lunges at them, get them to shove it straight in his mouth and I bet my bottom dollar he will go all relaxed and bum wiggling without attempting to jump up! Try it with somebody you know who's coming round, and you could end up like me with slippers lining your windowsill outside lol!

Daisy goes straight into our front room with the door closed every time the doorbell goes. She does it all by herself now.
Why not muzzle him for now? Then you know he can`t do damage?

That's a good idea!!! At least that way, you know he's safe (from your fears that you mentioned earlier). I had to do this at the vets time and time again, until the last visit when I just knew instintively that Zena would be ok even though she was poking around in her foot with the forceps I knew from her body language and I knew because she was licking her face!! Just like you will know, eventually, when it's safe to let any Tom,Dick or Harry in through that door, but for the time being you don't, same as I don't, if I just did what you do, without going through my ritual each time. Good luck.

Sorry to hear you have gone back a step or two today with Cain. It is always the way when trying to recondition and retrain a dog who had already got ingrained or learned responses to certain triggers, so don't be too downhearted.

My first shepherd was a rehome. She had had a few homes prior to being donated to the police and then came to me. She had numerous problems too and was blooming hard work a lot of the time, but I loved her to bits - so I know some of what you are going through.

As Helena has said, I really wouldn't allow Cain to meet anyone at the door for the timebeing, or else always have him in a calm state and either on lead or a house line, or in a solid sit/down behind you. From what you have described today though with your friend, I would say the problem seems to have stemmed from him being wound up before you opened the door. With hindsight, it may have been a better idea to just pop him in another room until your friend had entered the house.

With my fear-aggressive dog, I would always shut her in a different room until visitors to my house had come in and sat down. I would then arm them with tasty treats, and ask them to completely ignore her when I first let her in - no eye contact, no stroking, nothing. I also found it easier to put Sharna into a different room again when guests were leaving, as she would get a bit over-excited then and would nip if I weren't keeping a check on.

It will get easier, and the more you put in, the more you will get back in return. It sounds as though you are making good progress (with headaches in-between, which is bound to happen) so don't lose heart.

Thanks all, just a quick reply as it's very late, only just got in from dog training and I'm exhausted. Had a bad night. He lunged at the ticket inspector on the train plus one guy in class and a few dogs. He knew and liked the man at class and has spent the last few weeks playing with the other dogs. Something is up, this aggression is very high compared to his normal level. I ended up in floods of tears with my poor dog trainer!

We are going back to basics and keeping him well away from everyone and everything for the next few days to allow his stress level to decrease after so many anxiety attacks. Then we will start again slowly and see how he goes. I may well muzzle him for a while as if nothing else, it will give me confidence and Cain will benefit from that.

This has all happened since the Dogsey group dog walk on Sat. Too much stress? Maybe? He seemed to do well on the walk but you never know I suppose. It could be unrelated.

The other thing is that his DAP collar runs out at the weekend, it possibly is wearing off a bit early. He turned into a manic lungy monster last time it ran out, he just can't cope without it. So I just put a fresh collar on him to see how that goes.

The odd bad glitch I can get but he's made such huge progress, I cannot understand what has made him regress so drastically and suddenly. I hope it's just the collar....