I have recently lost the only place where I used to be able to let Jobie offlead. Chances are because he has no recall and doesn't like small dogs he will never go offlead again... But it's not something I'd consider rehoming over. Plenty fo people can't let their dogs offlead, you just have to work round it. When she gets older she might suddenly start coming back, you never know

Thanks everyone for your kind words. What you have said reflects how I feel. Yes it is just one problem and otherwise she is a lovely dog but it affects everything we do and I don't feel I have the relationship with this dog that I had with my last dogs.
I have tried toys and food and nothing works in those circumstances. She looks so happy running around and she is allowed to do this with certain dogs.
I have considered another dog but my confidence has been knocked by this and I worry that I might then have two dogs that won't come back. At least Tala is not aggressive in any way so I don't have to worry about her getting into trouble.

I know this is v stressful for you

I totaly agree that the dog running off is self rewarding
I also dont think we can ever be the most interesting thing in our dogs life - any dog gets distracted and they see the world differently from us - smells and other dogs and things

I dont expect to be the most important thing in my dogs life - but I try and train them so that its habbit to come back to me - that it is rewarding to come back to me and more often than not I will send them away to do something more fun

If you have good training and good recal in the house then that it fantastic and a great start
do you have a back garden?? I would work on some offlead stuff there and then build up to enclosed park

in the meantime there is nothing wrong with a long line - and you can continue to work on training with that

I know, Mias recal is a bit hit and miss so she is only offlead somewhere where we are all safe
both on and offlead I do lots of training in different locations - I always ask for something before and AFTER I unclip the lead so she looks to me rather than bound off

I also work on recal on the flexi and long line - and when she is offlead any time she is running back to me full speed I call her too me and praise her lots and lots

I am also working on training another recal using the backchaining method

Basicaly I realised that what I want as the end behaviour was for her to be sitting infront of me
So I upped the training on the 'front' command, teaching her to sit infront of me and she always gets lots of tasty treats
then call her to front from a further and further distance - always being really rewarding

so 'front' becomes an emmergency recal

But
as someone posted on another thread
for a dog it takes 1000 (or something like that) repititions before they know the behaviour
and they have to be done in many different locations

so how about every walk you are on - on or offlead - you call her back to you at a point when she is not distracted about 5 or 10 times per walk
every time you call her back when she is too distracted to come back you then have to add 5 sucessful recals - reducing the distraction
Then in about 6 months it will be a habit

- I would also work on lots of training tricks and stuff outside so she gets used to working with you

The question you have to ask is do you want to keep her
She can have a totaly happy life with you onlead if you dont get that recal


and I would ignore the pack theory thing - its a training issue with a dog who is having fun outside

Yes she works for other trainers with other dogs around her and comes back when off lead. I am obviously the problem.

I have been training her recall constantly for months outside both on and off line and she is pretty good when there are no other dogs involved.
But if there is the opportunity to play with another dog no toy or treat can compete. And I can't train her to play and come back and then let her play again because she doesn't come back in the first place so when I get hold of her I have to put her on the lead. So I am teaching her that coming back is the end of her fun.
We do lots of training when outside on our own.

Ahh, fair nuff
another dog is just too big a distraction
- soooo
Why not use it as a reward??
If you are in a safe place anyway - why not ask her to do something and then send her off to play with the other dogs
just leave her to play and have fun, when she eventually heads in your direction reward her then send her away again
and if the other dogs are good why not call them back and give them lots of treats - and when your girl heads towards you call her and reward her lots

I know Susan Garrat also works with other dogs that have a good down, when the dog with the recal problems is called all the other dogs are put in a 'down' so they become boring and the dog comes back

I dont believe any dogs have 100% perfect recal - there will always be something - might be that they just havent met it yet
thats why I look on in horror at the people walking along busy roads with dogs offlead, sure they are good for years and years, but it only takes once for something to be just too exciting the other side of the road

Its not necessarily that you're the problem hun. Sometimes different dogs work best with different handlers. Now I don't know a huge amount police dogs etc...but from the programmes I've seen on TV, they seem to switch dogs between handlers to get the best relationship. This tells me that even the best trainers can't always get the best out of an individual dog...sometimes different styles suite different dogs/owners.

I know you won't rush into a decision and I can completely understand where you are coming from. But I would say, particularly if you've had dogs before where you've had a great bond with them, if Tala should go and live with your friend, don't let it be a knock to your confidence. x

I agree that you need to train her with the help of someone who as dogs that are trained to ignore others on command. Once she finds the other dogs are boring & you have something special for her then she will focus on you.

How old is she ? When did you get her ? It is you that is the problem, but only in your inexperience & possible lack of help(or knowing where to get help). I was brought up with GSDs I owned my first one when i was 8(I jest not)& training then was the old choker & force. I was lucky my first GSD was a dream to train, coming from a German working background(despite it being over 50 years ago).

The next dog I trained was totally different & not only had no recall, she had been abused at the hands of a"dog breaker" so physical contact was a fear inducement to her.

So with the help of a dog trainer we set to work on turning her around. All off lead work was done in a hall or tennis court so she could not bolt & we taught her the "happy"recall. The trainer would hold a very light lead on her & I would walk away, knee on the ground & with a huge gesture of stretching my arms out & making silly call sounds called her to me, I then rewarded her both verbally & with very tasty treats she got at no other time.

It took over a year to get her outdoor recall spot on, but we managed to work together(even though she wasn't my dog)as a team & eventually went on to compete in Obedience all over te country with a good degree of success & her stays & recall which had been totally non existant originally ended up her very best exercise.

She taught me that I must have confidence in my dogs & build a really close relationship of mutual respect & trust.

It will come with time & experience, but don't give up on her because she has this problem. She does need some "dog time"& to be able to socialize safely. I hope you will reconsider

Maybe this is the crux of your relationship...

You can only do what you feel is right for you and the dog.

Personally regards the not being off lead..as others have said, many many dogs are not allowed off lead.. I have one here..she is 6 yrs old now, and 98% of the time is on lead... she has a good life, she enjoys her life, with the restrictions she has.. yes it could be better, it would be wonderful to see her running free with other dogs, doing all the doggy things.... but that is never going to happen.. so we except our lot , and work with it.

Reading between the line , it seems as you have said, you have not bonded with her.. and this may make all the difference in your dedication to your life with her.. as to whether you are prepared to structure your life to her needs.......If you feel she will have a better home with youre friend, maybe it is the righ thing..I dont know..only you can decide...

Good luck.

I know exactly where you are coming from.

First of all, I don't think it is a problem if shes stays on a long line...BUT
I also think dogs resopnd differently to different handlers.
I also know exactly what you mean about the joy of having a dog with a good recall...it gives you the freedom to walk so much more. I do understand that. I find it restrictive with Tango at the moment as I don't trust her to come back round people and other dogs and it is a shock to the system after having Cosmo who bounds back ...unless there are rabbits.

I puppy walked a dog that had terrible recall from day 1 of being offlead. He didn't give two hoots. It took us a year and a LOT of hard work to crack it.
He went in for training and became a little infamous as he lost his recall entirely (added to being a houdini dog it didn't make for a good time for the kennel staff, I'll leave the rest to your imagination!!! )
When he went to his final trainer, who was spot on...his recall was still questionable at points but was much better.
He is now working and has a perfect recall as he has realised his owner is blind. It could have gone either way, but they have a real bond of trust and love.

I found him such a hard dog to train...and I felt like I was failing so many times...as did his initial professional trainer. Pilchards worked for her apparently...

He just wanted to say hello to everyone and anything....pigeons, people,dogs...and got some sort of reaction and reward everytime. He was such a bundle of enthusiasm about life.

I have to say though, away from his recall...he was a fantastic dog, a real personality, such good fun and so very intelligent. I adored him. He is the reason I have Flat Coats!

All I am trying to say is...I DO understand totally where you are coming from and I have to say that despite my absolute love for him he is one of my pups that I would have questioned having back had he not made it, as life IS a lot harder when you have a dog with a poor recall,no matter how much you love them or how great they are in the house.She won't suffer being on a longline though. I am lucky that Tango walks beautifully on hers....if it was Cosmo I may be singing from a different sheet!

Only you can make the decision...