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k9ulf
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30-07-2010, 03:44 PM
Originally Posted by Ben Mcfuzzylugs View Post
I would have said that an important part of being a dog trainer is to explain to the owners why something takes time and teach them that you have dogs for 10+ years so it is worth investing a few months in training to reach that goal with no negative sied effects

Communication with the owners is at least as big a part of the job as training the dogs - rather than getting an ego boost from darting in, making a supposed amazing fix, then darting off without giving the owner the long term understanding to deal with any other problems
No doubt once the e collar trainer has left the owner will be tempted to try it themselves fir any other problems that arrive


It is just not possible to quickly fix any deeply held fears and issues
all you can do is supress them

In humans we gave up shock therapy a long time ago, work with the mental state takes time
Very good post!
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Krusewalker
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30-07-2010, 06:41 PM
Originally Posted by SibeVibe View Post
When Sabaka came into welfare she was scared, starved, and shutdown. Covered from head to toe in her own urine and faeces. The worst abuse case the SSHC Welfare Co-ordinator had seen to date. Sadly her litter sister did not survive.

Sabaka found a corner, faced the wall and shook with fear. She displayed advanced anxious behaviours. The lass was petrified and trusted no-one.

Her rehabilitation was a positively reinforced experience. Although intense, it was not a long drawn out process that would have kept her trapped in a fearful mindset for a long period of time.

All done without the use of an e collar.

I am truely horrified and deeply sadened that any trainer would recommend an e collar be used in these circumstances and imply it's use is for the welfare of the dog. Obviously my outrage is an emotional response. The same emotional response I felt when I first met the quivering wreck who sat facing the corner. But when it came to helping Sabaka I had no sentimental or emotional mindsent. I was detached, it was my job to help her, to teach her and to allow her without negative experience to become the little hooligan she is today

Take care.

Seoniad.
(so much for me ducking out of the e-collar thread )

ETA: The soundtrack to my life is 'the owners have tried everything'. All singing from the same Hymn sheet!
briiliant expressed. great post
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Krusewalker
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30-07-2010, 06:50 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
JB
1000's of dogs are pts every year in the uk for behavioural problems. In may cases these behavioural problems are easy to resolve using the right approach.
Adam
How can you know this?

Their is no national database for knowing that.

If you are referring to rescue, that is my background.
There is no national forumulated statistics for such things organised across all rescues.

The Dogs trust do have figures for how many stray dog there are, and if i recall, how many stray dogs were PTS?
And that foolproof, but a decent reseatched and therefore estimated figure.

Maybe you are referring to the BVA?
Do they keep a national record?
Do they make it public?
If they do, are the figures for PTS regardless of the reason?

Then you have the second problem of how you define "dogs PTS for behavioural problems".

For example how do you know how many dog PTS for behavioural problems are mismanagement problems...ie, human error?
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MerlinsMum
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30-07-2010, 07:10 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
How can you know this?
Their is no national database for knowing that.
He can't.... it doesn't exist.

As usual he's blowing stims out of his own posterior.
Whats worse, he believes his own propaganda... and is probably convincing enough to persuade na´ve dog owners, who have no idea of the truth, to pay money for his services.
Who was it earlier who described him as "dangerous"?
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Tupacs2legs
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30-07-2010, 07:17 PM
Originally Posted by Krusewalker View Post
How can you know this?

Their is no national database for knowing that.

If you are referring to rescue, that is my background.
There is no national forumulated statistics for such things organised across all rescues.

The Dogs trust do have figures for how many stray dog there are, and if i recall, how many stray dogs were PTS?
And that foolproof, but a decent reseatched and therefore estimated figure.

Maybe you are referring to the BVA?
Do they keep a national record?
Do they make it public?
If they do, are the figures for PTS regardless of the reason?

Then you have the second problem of how you define "dogs PTS for behavioural problems".

For example how do you know how many dog PTS for behavioural problems are mismanagement problems...ie, human error?
as private practise vets..no we do not report to the bva pts figures.
in my 19 years working in this industry i can count on one hand the number of dogs that have been pts re 'behavioural' problems......thats if you class human agression as behaviour probs.... i dont, again its mismanagment imo

..again tis a b******t statement meant to tug at the heart strings.
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Adam P
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30-07-2010, 08:14 PM
While I agree training taskes time. I often work with owners who have been trying to resolve simple issues (recall, lead walking ect) for months on end with no improvment.

With behavioural issues I agree it takes time but once again months/years is not an acceptable time frame, for small improvments.

Of course some problems are rather more pressing and need a quickish (plus managment) resolution.

Adam
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rune
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30-07-2010, 08:56 PM
Think you must have missed four of us asking for verification of the figures you gave.

We wait with bated breath.

rune
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Adam P
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30-07-2010, 09:00 PM
Sorry, thread goes so fast I tend to scan it.

Anyway my statement was based upon personal correspondants from a variety of sources and my own experiences of dogs who are going to be sent to rescue or who have been purchased from rescue.

In many ways dogs get sent to rescue because they are too much for the owner, this usually means pulls/doesn't come back and is a general pain. Training can take care of this.

Adam
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MerlinsMum
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30-07-2010, 09:01 PM
Originally Posted by rune View Post
Think you must have missed four of us asking for verification of the figures you gave.
Come on Adam, put your money where your mouth is - or is that the other way around?
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rune
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30-07-2010, 09:07 PM
Originally Posted by Adam Palmer View Post
Sorry, thread goes so fast I tend to scan it.

Anyway my statement was based upon personal correspondants from a variety of sources and my own experiences of dogs who are going to be sent to rescue or who have been purchased from rescue.

In many ways dogs get sent to rescue because they are too much for the owner, this usually means pulls/doesn't come back and is a general pain. Training can take care of this.

Adam
Rubbish then---just as we knew.

Goes with your territory.

rune
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