It's not just Mals, a lot of breeds including rotts, especially boys, (you ask Shona ) 'talk' and to joe public it can be daunting but when you get to know them there is a distinct difference between talking and a quiet growl.

To me temperament is largely genetic. It can be tweaked (good management and training) like bread dough to give you say, rolls or a loaf, but the basic ingredients remain the same........

I have seen plenty of aggression ringside in the last two years, some minor, some not. As Pod mentioned it may be due to novice ownership, or down to the disposition of the dog concerned. Last week, one dog was snarling and lungeing in the ring. He does at most shows. The judge clocked it, scowled and then placed him high in her line-up!

To answer the OPs thread question: It should be, but judges often back down. Only by not placing or banning the real culprits will we inculcate any sense into breeders who breed for their own sport and profile, and not for the sake of the breed.

Mary

You all raise very good point, firstly rotts are permitted to show some aggression to other dogs, more so male on male,
My own view on this is, I would rather show an even tempered animal than one up on the muscle,
Some owners have used there dogs aggression to make the dog look more up on the muscle hence they stand better,, these dogs so often go on to do well, they then become popular studs in the breed,

One of my males came from a very hot headed bitch, hes as calm and non aggressive as anyone could wish for, I did often worrie about the kc rule { prodgeny being banned }
Why should my dog not be allowed to show when he has one of the nicest tempraments in the ring, hes never growled, raised a lip, put a foot out of line,
but thats the KC for you, thankfuly its never happend,

I do have to say though, In the last two years I have seen dog aggression being frowned appon by judges costing dogs places at shows,

There are so many good dogs in the breed, with super tempraments at the moment I think its starting to cost the more hot headed dogs places,
this can only be good for the breed imo, breeders will be working harder to ensure there dogs are well behaved and socilable.
I must say its paying off, I havent seen one spat in the male dog ring at the last few shows I attended, Kaos had 24 large males in his class at SKC, not as much as a grumble, it was lovely,

talking is noisey,,,you often hear the males talk when on the move,, its so funny,, the min they start moving,,,you get ----I dont know how to descibe it,,lol hackles never up just this constant gobby silly noise,,

Oh, well I know of several who do it.

Oh yes I know, I know a few Mals who scare the pants off of people who think they are growling, but they are talking quietly As you say, once you know the difference, it's easy to tell

Heavens I'd have booted them both out of the ring for showing such aggression, that's appalling that the Judge would ignore such behaviour

I do get annoyed when I hear things like this being ignored. By doing so they are all but condoning bad behaviour I know in Rotts there can be some huffing and puffing from the Males especially, it's common with a dominant breed and all that testosterone. But to show proper aggressive behaviour and even bite, absolutely no way should that be allowed. Any handler having a dog like that should be made to leave the ring, they setting a bad example to their breed

There is a lady whose Rottie male took an instant dislike to Marius the moment he met him, heaven knows why as all Marius wants to do is befriend all and sundry. She shows her dog too and the last two shows she has deliberately tried to upset Marius by allowing her dog too close to him and growling. Not that he bats an eyelid at it,but it isn't the point

The last show she even had the temerity to shout over to me (in front of the judge I might add! ) "Whereabouts are you going to stand with him, you can't be too close to us" as if it was Marius not her dog that would be aggressive! I was so mad I said "doesn't matter where we stand he's friendly and isn't a problem". Grr

I love hearing that there were 24 males in the ring at the show and no grumbles - exactly proves a point that Rotts are NOT dangerous dogs at all. My first Rottie bitch was a grumbler, always talking away like a good 'un. Typical girlie she never shut up!!!! She was hilarious doing agility, the pitch of the grumbles went up and down in rhythm with the agility course lol, I do miss that - Marius never chatters bless him. Lots of people don't realize it is quite a common breed trait (I know we didn't know about it until we got her) It's distinctively different to a proper growl though, you can tell in the 'tone' and their facial expressions

will defo need to get a vid of holly talking, is so funny, its not like a growl so much with her, more like a right mouthfull of swear words,,doggy style,,lol

[quote=Anne-Marie;1399424]Heavens I'd have booted them both out of the ring for showing such aggression, that's appalling that the Judge would ignore such behaviour

I do get annoyed when I hear things like this being ignored. By doing so they are all but condoning bad behaviour I know in Rotts there can be some huffing and puffing from the Males especially, it's common with a dominant breed and all that testosterone. But to show proper aggressive behaviour and even bite, absolutely no way should that be allowed. Any handler having a dog like that should be made to leave the ring, they setting a bad example to their breed

There is a lady whose Rottie male took an instant dislike to Marius the moment he met him, heaven knows why as all Marius wants to do is befriend all and sundry. She shows her dog too and the last two shows she has deliberately tried to upset Marius by allowing her dog too close to him and growling. Not that he bats an eyelid at it,but it isn't the point

this is my issue with it all, some handlers who find there dog flat on the day will use another dog to wind there own dog up and get it up on the muscle if you know what I mean, it really bugs me when I see it,,,judges seeing that sort of thing should deal with it,, its bad practice, but common in the breed im afraid,
hugs to marvelous marius,,,hes a babe

Oh yes, agree completely that aggressive dogs should be banned for the safely of all concerned but to assume that all progeny have not only inherited the genetic component that facilitates this aggression, but also been subject to similar bad management that allows this to develop, is really taking it a bit far IMO.


I know... crazy

LOL, only just realised what you're on about