Hi Mo, agree but I think judges do worry about the progeny being banned along with the offending animal, it would worry me too and I would have to be badly damaged before I did it. May be I am being irresponsible but I would think about the other blameless dogs that would also be effected.

That is what I thought not long ago when the Beagle and all his progeny were banned. Perhaps it would be better if the culprit were banned and all progeny had to take a behavioural assessment by their vet and have it sent back to the kc before allowing them back into the ring.

I think we would see more dogs sent from the ring if this was the rule, but it isn't and I think it is what worries judges.

I didn't know progeny could be banned too! How amazingly hypercritical of the KC. They have put so much effort into "breed not deed" pushing the notion that behaviour is not heritable.

I fully agree with banning the offending dog, for the safety of all concerned but his bad behaviour could be almost entirely down to bad management and very little to do with any genetic component that could be passed on to progeny.

I too didnt realise the progeny would also get banned by default? having said that I dont think someone should breed from an aggressive dog, but we all know some people dont bother to take temperment into consideration when breeding. what I cant understand is the judge placing a dog when the judge has witnessed this behaviour, I can understand the judge not wanting to be the cause of a dog being banned and all of its progeny to follow suit, but I would have thought the judge would have at least not given the dog a placing especially when there were other dogs i the ring that behaved impecably and were of equal quality IMO?

MO

Certainly within my breed biligarance towards another dog in the ring isn't seen as a fault, if a dog attacked his/her handler another handler or judge it would be removed from the class, here in France you double handle so the likleyhood of a fight is probably higher than it is in a class in the UK, as your dog is the full length of it's lead free standing so not close to you and in a big open class full of males it does kick off quite often.

Mo and the Gang

I have to agree with you here and as you say it happens in all breeds. There are a few lines in Mals that I personally wouldn't touch with a barge pole as although their dogs do reasonably well in the show ring, their temperament leaves an awful lot to be desired (and I am not only talking dog aggression here, but in some cases also people aggression ).

This also happens in my breed, some males do chunter under their breath but they aren't actually growling at the judge (we call it talking).

I think the vast majority of people will agree with you here Mo.

However temperament IS partly genetic, there is no guarantee the dog will pass their poor temperament on as it could be due to an environmental factor, however why should people take the risk? A while ago a judge had to go to hospital due to an incident where he sustained an injury to his face. I know of dogs who have been banned and thus any progeny can not be registered and in isolated cases I may not agree with it, but on the whole I see it as a good thing. The show ring is no place for an aggressive dog.

Just read this again and had to admit it made me laugh

Sorry

I also think it depends on the breed.Some breeds are known to be a bit 'sharp'..esp the males and if a dog is used at stud this can make it worse.
I think reacting to another male who is maybe eyeballing etc and unprovocated aggression are completely different.
We have a male in our breed who is known for his aggression..he has lunged at several other males without provocation.His breed lines are also known to be 'unreliable'.At the end of the day if people stop buying from these lines then the breeders will stop breeding.
I also think that if a dog was banned it shouldn't include progeny...each dog should be judged on its merit.

I've only heard one Mal who regularly talks in the ring. The only other noises I've heard from Mals are quiet growling, not talking