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Jet&Copper
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30-11-2011, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by sandymere View Post
..... its because I come from a background where that’s the norm, evidence based practice is central and one is expected to be able to evidence rather than just use opinion to back their assertions.
This is why I was asking, you state you come from a background where this is the norm??? What background?

I'm not a Vet either, but I do have a lot of letters after my name

The reason I mention this is most people with the "background" understand that published research can't just be picked and chosen based on what you want to put forward, and that not all research studies have been created equal.

In my "expert" opinion, as a research scientist, but not a nutritionist or a vet, there is simply not enough clinical level evidence either way to make any bold statements for or against RAW. Until there is, let's all feed our dogs what we see fit, and what works for them
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rueben
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30-11-2011, 02:33 PM
For a newby you certainly have jumped in the deep end.
There are people on this site who know far more than you and will be better qualified that do not feel a need to impress by riding on the back of pages from the internet.
As a means to projection knowledge this does you no favours.
Others may take you more seriously if you posted in a less patronising manner.
My original view is not gospel only a view and a very short view at that not a long winded drawn out recital from the internet.
God forbid if everyone started to post endless pages of the internet there would be no room for originally constructed comments.
As a self appointed inspiration to us all you flatter yourself.
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lozzibear
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30-11-2011, 02:36 PM
Originally Posted by sandymere View Post
HI nicky, any Bad Science fan is a good one as far as I’m concerned.

As this is a why feed raw topic it’s a little strange that when I post any info that draws doubt on the subject it is attacked with such numbers, backed by so little evidence. It’s a shame that some feel they already know everything about the subject to the extent that they don’t bother to read valid info when its offered, I believe an open enquiring mind is so important.
To those who don’t understand my use of evidence to support my post, its because I come from a background where that’s the norm, evidence based practice is central and one is expected to be able to evidence rather than just use opinion to back their assertions. An example would be, RAW diets can lead to increased bacterial load to dogs and may be a risk to children that have access to the dogs and their environment. Then I would link to a piece of evidence in the form of research or to a vet etc ie
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1140397/
You say 'little evidence', we say we have the evidence in our dogs!

I have researched raw a lot, and it was not something I rushed into so I do not feel the need to read numerous links of 'evidence' that to me, just isn't credible. Also, a lot of your links seem very irrelevant IMO.

Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
I've never read nor joined any discussions about raw feeding before. I have to say, having read all the posts on the one for NOT doing so and starting to read this one - the advocates of raw feeding do come across as being rather aggressive in their promotion/defence/whatever of it.

Now don't shoot me down - I am just saying - as someone who has never discussed it or even read about it before - that's how it appears to me.

I had no idea this was such a contentious issue. I said on the other thread 'why should anyone be so bothered about what anyone ELSE feeds their dog?'

I don't understand why those who want to feed their dogs raw diet feel the need to justify their decision so strongly. And also have to say they do come across as 'looking down on' those who don't.

Just impressions from someone who has never thought about the issue very much at all. My past big dogs would have eaten ANYTHING, raw, cooked or even what I considered inedible - all went down without 'touching the sides'!

My present little dog (very little) doesn't like any raw food. I didn't try her on some because I'd read about raw feeding and the benefits etc. - I tried her on raw steak because I just ASSUMED any dog would love some! Ditto liver - but she doesn't like any of it at all.

This leads me to wonder further whether many owners of very small 'toy' breeds (mine is 9" at the shoulder) feed them a raw diet, or is it just popular with bigger dogs? But perhaps that's for another thread.
Raw feeders can just get sick to death of having to defend their decision to feed raw (not just on here)... it has always been a dodgy topic on here, which is why the raw feeding section was ONLY for raw feeders... until it was changed It was nice to have a place to post without having to worry about people attacking your way of feeding... thankfully, that doesn't happen so much now that it is becoming more popular. But, I am sure that if kibble feeders, or any commercial food feeders, had people always telling them how dangerous etc their choice was, they would defend it as well... especially when said diet, has done wonders for their dog.

I think the 'Why NOT feed raw' thread was totally wrong to begin with... I don't see a 'Why NOT feed commercial food' thread...

I don't think any of what you mentioned, happens here on dogsey... except when people talk rubbish about a way we feed, and then we disagree back. But, I certainly don't see people on here 'looking down their nose' at others.

Many people feed small dogs raw... even puppies get fed raw. Clo on here feeds her CCs raw, and I know people from other forums who feed Chi's raw... So, size does not matter.
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Jet&Copper
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30-11-2011, 02:39 PM
I for one, am always up for a good discussion

From my experience, very often for every piece of research that says one thing, you can find one that says the opposite!!!

(and no I'm not goint to post links to prove it )
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smokeybear
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30-11-2011, 02:49 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
This is why I was asking, you state you come from a background where this is the norm??? What background?

I'm not a Vet either, but I do have a lot of letters after my name

The reason I mention this is most people with the "background" understand that published research can't just be picked and chosen based on what you want to put forward, and that not all research studies have been created equal.

In my "expert" opinion, as a research scientist, but not a nutritionist or a vet, there is simply not enough clinical level evidence either way to make any bold statements for or against RAW. Until there is, let's all feed our dogs what we see fit, and what works for them

What she said
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smokeybear
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30-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Originally Posted by Jet&Copper View Post
I for one, am always up for a good discussion

From my experience, very often for every piece of research that says one thing, you can find one that says the opposite!!!

(and no I'm not goint to post links to prove it )
Ditto Ditto ditto
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Tang
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30-11-2011, 03:04 PM
Originally Posted by smokeybear View Post
Ditto Ditto ditto
Ditto that from me too! And for statistics, AND for the Bible!
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Jet&Copper
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30-11-2011, 03:20 PM
Originally Posted by Tangutica View Post
Ditto that from me too! And for statistics, AND for the Bible!
Hahahaha statistics are a favourite in my field - can make your data say whatever you want it to say!

The Bible is just, well, I'm saying nothing.
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SLB
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30-11-2011, 03:44 PM
Oh you'd get much worse "attacks" if you posted half the stuff elsewhere.. you'd actually turn tail and run as fast as you can!

I'm sure I've read something about risks - apologies if I haven't but hey ho..
The thing is we're happy with what we feed.. we know the risks;

Choking: keep an eye on your dog whilst it is eating, make sure it knows how to chew before you trust it to eat without you holding it. Also a hazard with wet and dry food.

Bacteria: If you wash your hands, sides and any surfaces the meat has been in contact with then there will be no issue. Also buying good quality meat that is fresh or frozen fresh then it's better. Don't allow kids near food bowls or areas the dogs eat.. simple. Bacteria can also generate in dry and wet food and also in water bowls..

There are risks with all types of feeding - so that doesn't exactly make for a good argument.
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Dobermann
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30-11-2011, 04:37 PM
I think what people are defensive about is someone joining a forum and making a point of going onto threads to do with natural (remember the garlic?) and raw diets, (when they obviously have some sort of hang-up about these subjects) just to make a point of how wrong we all are to feed our dogs this way, when they clearly know little or nothing about the subject and throw very biased opinions and so-called research at us, which is so clearly flawed anyway.

The member I have in mind here does not know my dog, my circumstances etc etc yet feels the need to say what my dog should not be eating. I don't think so!
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