Some shepherds do have colour preferences. Many will favour the traditional colouring because they believe they are the best workers. More white tends to settle sheep, more black the opposite. It doesn't mean that non-traditional colours can't work, just that a lot of the shepherds like to stick with what they know works.

with regard to BCs, Isnt it actually the working folks that would be at the centre of the 'looks' changing, after all people breeding to produce show puppies will be breeding with the aim to have puppies as closely matched to the standard as possible - Them that are breeding to run on puppies out in the feild, wont care what their puppies look like to a certain extent - and will be more inclinded to mate dogs that are good workers, with them tempermants their after. That I can totally understand as looks means nothing to them in the way the look of the dog doesnt alter its performance.

I am not around the BC showing scence to be fair, so cant say I know or have seen the changes that have occured. But to me breeding for a thicker coat isnt much of a problem is it? I have seen some BC in the ring with flashy thick coats, and others with less of a coat. I must admit I do like the look of the BC with heavier coats. Personal preference though.

Their is a massive variation in CCs...Different amounts of funishings, different colours and markings. The hairless and the puffs, the deer and the cobby..ect. I like variation to some extent...But for me my idea of a perfect CC will stay the same...Regardless of whats winning in the ring.

so has the standard recently changed then? If not then the show folk are still aiming to produce dogs to the same standard - and people on here mentioned changing of the head..

(I am actually interested).

We don't need it----but unfortunately we have it.

Being old enough to remember when the KC decided to move them all over---there were arguments from breed enthusiasts then because they knew the showing would change the look of the breed. It has.

rune

But the standard only covers a small amount of the variation that is natural in the breed
for example
It is not common but perfectly natural for a black and white dog to have blue eyes, this in no way effects his ability to work sheep - so why is this excluded from the standard?




It seems to me standards are open to interpritations and fashions, terms like moderate are at best hazy - and it seems over time in breeds terms like 'moderatly wrinkly' mean the dogs become more wrinkly as judges favour the slightly more wrinkled one

I know people belielve breeding to a breed standard keeps a breed pure - but you only have to look at old photographs to see how breeds are changing. Do we really need another breed the 'show collie'?

Heres a leggie smooth collie who wouldnt do well in the ring - although he fits the standard of slightly longer in body than height at the shoulder

I'm guessing here, but is it possible that the blue eyes are connected to a gene that produces predominant white? I'm just thinking that the only black & white dogs I've seen with blue eye(s) are those with more white than the traditional b&w.

Just the same in the CC's....Light eyes...Green/blue ect are not accepted. The eyes should be as dark as possible.
I to couldnt tell you the reason for this, although I spose eye colour would alter the dogs expression.

Mace has bluey/greeny eyes.

I have seen that link before BM very good site.

Crufts - is anyone else NOT a fan?

Now for me that is a but like saying 'football anyone not a fan'..

its funny you should say that!
as football was EXactly the other thing i had in mind when i bought up my paint drying analogy

I don't know the first thing about football, I don't have any interest in it at all so I leave it alone for those who do understand and appreciate the finer points of the sport. [B]I don't critisise others for appreciating and understand something I don't.

never do i... i just tell them how excruciatingly dull I find the game, and how its full of over-paid spoiled preening prima-donna nancy boys whom cant hack minor injuries and need extra rest, and they should learn a real sport with real blokes and some real pain, like rugby or the tour de france!
Just like i told my football loving brother in law in the pub tonight


Likewise Crufts or any other dog show. Many people just don't 'get' what it is all about and think it is just a parade of bored dogs .
It sooo much more than that if you are passionate about a breed . It's meeting up with fellow enthusiasts/learning about a breed/comparing dogs / seeing how dogs with the same breeding and litter mates have turned out/finding out who is breeding what/looking at possible stud dogs (if you are a breeder)/looking around at the stalls for the latests goods,maybe winning something and for many dogs and owners a jolly good day out.

In the days when I was involved with showing the dogs couldn't wait to get in the car and get to the shows. We never went to the big shows alone always two people and the dogs were never left on the benches unattended except for the briefest of moments when a fellow exhibitor would keep watch. The dogs were frequently walked around and loved sitting on the benches being admired and spoken to by the visiting public.

So to the detractors if you don't like it no one is asking you to ,leave it alone.

that wouldnt make sense, this is a thread called "crufts, who isnt a fan?"....that would mean you would have a thread with no replies


That said I have to say Crufts isn't my faviourite show ,to busy and 'hyped' for me mainly because it is the only dog show many of the general public seem to be are aware of. I much prefer the summer outdoor Championship shows.

Check out the dogs on this page
http://www.gis.net/~shepdog/BC_Museu...rEyeColor.html
infact I think you will love the whole site - so many different colours and looks - every one a collie
v few who would make it in a show ring