I'm not sure rolling your eyes, as I feel it is a valid point. The bird comparison is just that; we all have different opinions of what an animal needs. Some think birds should not be caged, others have no problem in confining them. Some think dogs need free running, others think they need to be confined.

Lead walks and training may work for your dogs, but they do not work for all dogs. There needs to be a balance there, and for us at least some daily free running is part of that balance.

No, Loki needs to run because it is in his nature. He is never satisfied with on-lead walks only, no matter how long they last or how stimulating I try to make them. It is different to 'needing' 'wanting' 'desiring' a new item. It is in-built in him and he is a happier dog when he has had a chance to cut loose and run freely. In contrast to some others, it is hard to get his attention to me on the lead, yet works better with me off lead. In fact, he is better on the lead once he's had a chance to run off lead.

Now wasn't that well worth the effort! It's only thanks to all this snow (which is still here since the 16th December!) that I've learned just how valuable this lead walking is - I'm definitely a convert now, and even if/when I get my dogmobile back from hubby, maybe tomorrow if it rains, then I will still be doing a bit of both with my youngster from now on, coz it's taught me how to actually tire her out! (Mind you, I do cheat a bit, coz she gets to run for 20 mins when we reach the green , but that makes the walk back all the much nicer for her heelwork). I'm quite excited about this lead walking now, and she's STILL asleep!!!! Unheard of in this house quite honestly, I should have been presented with the football by now!!!

our walks are rotated at random - we have at least 6 different routes from the house (baring heavy snow) and access to loads more by car. She choses when/if she wants to run. Sometimes she'll potter by me, sometimes we'll play with her ball, sometimes she's off hunting/sniffing in the undergrowth and sometimes she just kicks up her heels and runs - zoomies. There are certain surfaces which make her more likely to want to run (usually long grasses and or banks) but she doesn't run each time she gets to the same area. No way is it a learned behaviour.

I believe dogs who are never let off do miss out, irrespective of the reason they don't get off. That isn't to say it's not going to be a happy, healthy dog, and I imagine it is something they get used to.

We had a dog aggressive springer growing up, she had to be walked on lead mainly- but whenever we managed to find somewhere she could get let off she was a totally different dog- she just loved it. It actually makes me sad to think of her and how much she missed out

I initially wanted a husky, but the thought of having a totally onlead dog changed my mind. Recall is the one area of training that I constantly try to reinforce in my pup, I love to see him running about sniffing- playing with other doggies, coming back to me, I think I love it more than him!

in that case, all a dog NEEDS is food and water. It doesn't need mental stimulation, it doesn't need companionship, it doesn't need walks (on or off lead) and it doesn't need training because I'm sure there will be dogs who are content without one or more of these things.

It was, i had forgotten how it can tire their little brains out

Which answers my other question to you, I am guessing you have never tried to have stimulating onlead walks with your dogs.
I stick by what I said as well and my rolly eyes,a bird is a bird and cannot be compared to a dog.

Can I ask what he actually does though LS?

When Cosmo gets offlead he may have a 5 miute frolic where he runs for no reason, he does it in the garden as well though. Other than that if he has a ball he constantly brings it back to be thrown...if he doesn't he doesn't 'run' much. None of my dogs ever have. They sniff and may 'trot' from sniffing spec to sniffing spec...but they rarely ran for the sake of running, except when they were clipped offlead, or when they chase a squirrel or rabbit or ball. That includes my BCs in the past...and my GSD X.
It does wear them out huh?

Hmmm...the only time mine ever do zoomies is in the garden or in the house, never ever ever on walks, not one of mine past or present has ever done a zoomie on a free run. Yes, in the house and garden...but never, ever on a free run.
As I just said to LS, they (Tango included) will frolic for 2 minutes when they are first let offlead (as they do when they are first let into the garden) but they don't do it everytime. Other than that they don't actually 'run' very much. Anything they do could just as easily be done on a longline (and in Tango's case is). The only difference between Tango on a long line and Tango free is that Tango knows she cannot stop other dogs running when she is on a longline or lead.Other than that and the initial frolic, her bahviour is the same.

What do they miss out on that they don't get on a well thought out, stimulating walk?
They need food...water..shelter and companionship as basics as they are pack animals. They do also need some exercise...as we all do...in order to keep fit. No...you're right, they don't NEED to be trained.

Yes....beacuse in living with a different species if training is not in place the dog would not be alive! You cannot have a dog human bond without some kind of training (conscious or unconscious)


But if that dog had never had it....would it miss it - if it got play times...sniff times....training times....? It would be hellishly hard to do - but i think you could give any breed of dog what it needed without that off lead free run....

(not that I would do that or ever suggest anyone did!)

Then you are also probably judging 'need' from your own experiences.
There isn't enough room for Stumpy to do zoomies in the our house or garden (which are both average size). She will usually run 200-300 yards away from me before changing direction.

I will compromise with you....SOME dogs need to run