|
Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
|
12-01-2010, 05:58 PM
Originally Posted by labradork 
I'm not sure rolling your eyes, as I feel it is a valid point. The bird comparison is just that; we all have different opinions of what an animal needs. Some think birds should not be caged, others have no problem in confining them. Some think dogs need free running, others think they need to be confined.
Lead walks and training may work for your dogs, but they do not work for all dogs. There needs to be a balance there, and for us at least some daily free running is part of that balance.
No-one is suggesting the dogs should be confined never to run or be allowed to be a dog - they are saying that off lead running about is not always a nesscesity - you can fulfill the dogs needs to be a dog in other ways.
|
|
|
Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
|
12-01-2010, 06:00 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
No-one is saying the dog should be confined.....if teh people were to fly the birds on a line that would be different.....but not free flying.
No-one is suggesting the dogs should be confined never to run or be allowed to be a dog - they are saying that off lead running about is not always a nesscesity - you can fulfill the dogs needs to be a dog in other ways.
|
|
|
|
Location: uk
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 18,552
|
12-01-2010, 06:01 PM
Do you think given Tango was a working gundog, she would be better doing a job, running free, searching, working etc. or do you feel her on lead restricted exercise fulfills her life?
|
|
|
Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
|
12-01-2010, 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
Which answers my other question to you, I am guessing you have never tried to have stimulating onlead walks with your dogs.
I stick by what I said as well and my rolly eyes,a bird is a bird and cannot be compared to a dog.
Can I ask what he actually does though LS?
When Cosmo gets offlead he may have a 5 miute frolic where he runs for no reason, he does it in the garden as well though. Other than that if he has a ball he constantly brings it back to be thrown...if he doesn't he doesn't 'run' much. None of my dogs ever have. They sniff and may 'trot' from sniffing spec to sniffing spec...but they rarely ran for the sake of running, except when they were clipped offlead, or when they chase a squirrel or rabbit or ball. That includes my BCs in the past...and my GSD X.
It does wear them out huh?
Hmmm...the only time mine ever do zoomies is in the garden or in the house, never ever ever on walks, not one of mine past or present has ever done a zoomie on a free run. Yes, in the house and garden...but never, ever on a free run.
As I just said to LS, they (Tango included) will frolic for 2 minutes when they are first let offlead (as they do when they are first let into the garden) but they don't do it everytime. Other than that they don't actually 'run' very much. Anything they do could just as easily be done on a longline (and in Tango's case is). The only difference between Tango on a long line and Tango free is that Tango knows she cannot stop other dogs running when she is on a longline or lead.Other than that and the initial frolic, her bahviour is the same.
What do they miss out on that they don't get on a well thought out, stimulating walk?
They need food...water..shelter and companionship as basics as they are pack animals. They do also need some exercise...as we all do...in order to keep fit. No...you're right, they don't NEED to be trained.
I'd say for every mile I walk my Slovakian runs triple that amount, easily. She runs for the sake of running and then some. She lives for it.
|
|
|
Location: Wakefield England
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,697
|
12-01-2010, 06:07 PM
|
|
|
Location: Scottish Borders
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 13,902
|
12-01-2010, 06:08 PM
Originally Posted by Tassle
Yes....beacuse in living with a different species if training is not in place the dog would not be alive! You cannot have a dog human bond without some kind of training (conscious or unconscious)
But if that dog had never had it....would it miss it - if it got play times...sniff times....training times....? It would be hellishly hard to do - but i think you could give any breed of dog what it needed without that off lead free run....
(not that I would do that or ever suggest anyone did!)
But I class the 'need' for running as the same type of need as the need for training and mental stimulation.
|
|
|
|
Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
|
12-01-2010, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by labradork
I guess you have never owned a HPR then.
I'd say for every mile I walk my Slovakian runs triple that amount, easily. She runs for the sake of running and then some. She lives for it.
However - I think search games, along with her training and lead walks alowing her to sniff about and do dog things would be OK.
It is not something I would do as I a) am too lazy and b) enjoy taking my dogs and watching them run for miles on the dunes (and they do run - 80% of the time).
|
|
|
|
Location: West Sussex
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 6,749
|
12-01-2010, 06:12 PM
Originally Posted by Ramble
Thanks Tassle...that is exactly what I am saying. Dogs don't NEED to be offlead..nice if they can be but it is not a NEED.
|
|
|
|
Location: UK
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 9,065
|
12-01-2010, 06:13 PM
Originally Posted by Hali
I disagree that a dog could not live with a human without being trained. the dog might well teach themselves something (e.g. get out the way when the door opens, go to the person when they are hungry) but that is not the same as training. Whether the human would cope - (e.g. if the dog didn't choose to poo outside) is a different matter.
But I class the 'need' for running as the same type of need as the need for training and mental stimulation.
|
|
|
|
Location: dogsville
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,141
|
12-01-2010, 06:14 PM
Originally Posted by Borderdawn
Ramble.
Do you think given Tango was a working gundog, she would be better doing a job, running free, searching, working etc. or do you feel her on lead restricted exercise fulfills her life?
Tango, we feel had a shock collar used on her to stop her chasing behaviours with small furries/birds and sheep. She is a sociable, loveable dog that wants to play but is frightened and unnerved by other dogs running around her...she wants them to stop. She wants to play with them,as long as they don't run. We think she was shocked because of her reactions and because when she came the hair on her neck (and the skin) where the contacts would have been was totally different. I had a very experienced trainer come to meet her (a friend who met her for fun not training) who immediately pointed it out (it was something we had already noticed.)
So do I think Tango would be best off in that situation again Dawn? No I certainly don't. I think she has a fantastic life here. She is well fed, in excellent condition and is walked well every day.(Except those days where we keep them both in and do training and hunt/retrieve games in the house and garden with them
)
Occassionally she does get to run...trouble is she even had to go back onlead shortly after this as she floored Cosmo for running. She is still such a work in progress thanks to her previous 'working' life.
but most of the time she is onlead...does she look un fulfilled??
ETA: we also think that she was a working dog that had at least one litter, maybe more.
She was also a dog that was not used to being groomed and was very sensitive about you going anywhere near her rear end. Not anymore. So Dawn...do you think she is better with us or better back in her working life?
|
|