Good posts, not sure about anyone backing down, sometimes these threads have on occasion changed some peoples view on CM ,(those with open minds) so in a way , these endless threads, do do some good.

This one like all the others will die a natural death... then given time will raise its head again

I think the line should definitely be drawn firmly under Cesar's robust treatment of this dog and also Shadow. The Shadow incident was out of order IMO, end of, and I am sure that CM would be the first to accept that. He got quite a nasty bite, good for Shadow ! The dog with the chicken is different, but definitely that Cesar "bite" was IMO the maximum amount of force that should EVER be used in a similar situation. I have issued a similar Cesar "bite" to Tai when we were on holiday last summer in a rented cottage through which would rampage 4 tame hens from next door. I have some lovely photographs of me and Tai on the lawn, me teaching him to leave them alone. I can't put them up as I am clearly recognisable and if you saw what I looked like, you would NEVER speak to me again!! I had to "bite" him on his shoulder a couple of times because he wasn't ignoring them. Following this 5 minute training session, provided we were in the garden with him, he could be trusted not to chase the chickens. He couldn't be let out on his own though, because without me there, they would definitely have became Tai fodder.

He even allowed the chickens to come up to his food bowl and peck at the left over food in there, and peck at his marrow bone. The expression on his face is that of an indulgent father ... all for our benefit of course

the chicken is appalling, I agree. The slap I do not agree with.

Dunno !!

Oh yes, I know, the slap ... whether it was a jowly sound or a slappy sound !!

I say jowly, mixed with the rattle of identity disc on the collar. I think you guys say it's the ringing sound of a slap.

I'm beginning to lose the will to live here !!

That's fine, one mans slap , is another mans tickle... if you use a CM tickle on your dogs, then thats up to you,

Personally the dog in question looked equally as stressed as the chicken, after he "touched" it.

Each to their own,

Yeah, I did didn't I Rune. sorry, I didn't mean that it is OK to kick any animal, but not a wolf cross. What I meant to infer was that most dogs will "take" such an over-reaction from humans, but wolf crosses very definitely will not. We all know of the scenario of the dog whose owner continually kicks and abuses the dog, starves it, beats it, and yet the dog licks his hand and forgives him every time? A wolf cross is far too independent-minded and aloof to do such a thing, although will deep down still have the same degree and sense of loyalty to the hand that beats him ... it's just he won't accept it with the same blind devotion.

I am not saying that CM abuses dogs of course, but in the case of Shadow he was over the top, as I am sure he would be the first one to admit. He was over the top, end of, whatever the breed. Luckily it was a wolf cross, and it bit him. Well done Shadow.

Why luckily

CM abused Shadow. Whats more he thought it was ok to do it and show it on TV. If that is what he shows I dread to think what goes on behind the scenes.

Maybe he thought people would think him brave and wonderful for doing it-------

rune

I`d reward good behaviour and elimate the chance for bad behaviour. I`d also wonder why you consider the dog is `bolshie` which is a human term and presupposes human motives in the dog. Being angry (telling off) an angry or frightened dog seems a little pointless.

The only way to eliminate the chance for her not to see another dog ever in her life is to put a blindfold on her Of course she gets rewarded for being good, but if she starts being naughty, I'm not just going to say nothing. And to control a staffy of that size without putting force into it is impossible.

By bolshy I mean she'll make a lot of noise and barge with her shoulders, but has never bitten - you are presupposing my presuppostion! I don't have an appropriate term in 'dog' for it, my vocabulary is not sufficient.

I don't get angry with her (I never said I did), I do tell her off. Otherwise how will she know she's done something I don't like? She is not frightened of other dogs, she just likes to show them who is boss, but I'm sure you could understand in a dog of her type and size it isn't acceptable for her to do that.