Just an analogy to your post on leaving things be..

We would not have the panda if we took that attitude



The fox will not be feeding on chickens when he is being hunted...they usually do their feeding at night, or early morning, when nobody is around....

i didnt say let things be ! foxes have to eat dont kill them for it an if a fox gets in to your chickens NAE LUCK

I said this yesterday and after reading all the posts I still wonder just how many foxes are killed yearly by the 'hunt'?
Enough to get the 'problem' under control? I don't think so!!. It is a barbaric leftover from the landed gentry who had nothing better to do that dress in stupid costumes and go 'tally ho'ing' through fields.

In regards to the Panda and Squirrels... and all animals for that matter. Just goes to show how humans have mucked up this planet. Victorian Landed Gentry again going on 'Safari' killing animals to the point of extinction and what for? to put the poor beast head on the wall of his mansion to show how "brave" he was.
Don't tell me that we are responsible by trying to curb extiction....it was the human that put them in the postion they are in now.

Good post I agree!

I can think of an "indiscriminate killing" example. A few years ago, infact it was the summer before i joined here, we had a fox attack. At that time I kept and bred fancy rabbits and guinea-pigs, I used to show them and they were a big hobby of mine. I had quite large numbers at that time, nothing beyond my control though, but enough. I think it was around twenty five odd rabbits, n a few less guinea-pigs. They all had their hutches in a specifically designed "outhouse" type construction which was built around the alley entrance to our garden, it was quite secure. We also had five indian runner ducks at this time.
It was in summer, and about eight oclock but still quite light. I'd just put everyone back from runs into hutches and locked them down for the night, same as with the ducks. Everything was secure as. Later on that night i heard "something" outside..went and had a look with my old Russell bitch..and whatever it was she went hell bent for leather at and it hopped the wall. It was quite dark so I presumed it was a cat. Next morning I came down, and it was a massacre. The whole garden was loitered with bits of fur and carcass. Literally i'm not exadgeratting when I say all you could see was maimed rabbits and guinea-pigs. I went to the outhouse thing I kept their hutches in and saw a hole broke into the wood pannelling of it, fox had scratched and broke away a slightly weak point I presume. I went in and it was worse than the garden, blood everywhere, bodies everywhere. Even a litter of three week old English rabbits just had their throats ripped out/heads off. Out of about 45 animals I was left with six alive, four rabbits and a pair of guinea-pigs. All either wounded or in shock. I then went to check on the ducks, and yes..gone. Three taken, and one had a wing ripped off and was just sat in shock, and another had tried to escape and got itself wedged between the wire, and had a bad bite to the back. These were both put out of their misery to prevent further suffering. Upon visiting the vets with the surviving rabbits an d guinea-pigs; one rabbit had died whilst we were travelling and one had to be pts along with one of the guinea-pigs due to bites "beyond repair" to prevent further suffering. Leaving me with two buns and a guinea-pig which I had for some time afterwards.
It's not a nice task having to clear a garden of around forty bodies of pets of yours, having to wade through a sea of legs heads and torso's. Or seeing ducks so worried that you know they wont "return" so its for the best to end suffering.
I got an uncle of mine round with the shotgun that night, and as I thought mr foxy returned to pick up what it had left. He didn't get away again.
Okay you could argue it was natural, but it's not. They get into a killing frenzy, and then leave the mess behind I described.
I got a few more buns n g-pigs in the following years, had padlocked hutches and reinforced wire on the cage doors. Still foxy got through and got at them, I decided its easier not to bother anymore!

Ofcause we are responsible , thats the whole point..we the human race are responsible for the welfare of all other species on this planet.

And yes, you ar 100% right in the fact we are responsible for the near extinction of other species... either through environmental or pleasure....

But thankfully we learn from our mistakes, and in parts of the world people are working tirelessly to right certain wrongs.

Sorry you had to deal with that Luke, the same has happened to my friend... Mr fox , left a carnage of bits around after his killing spree.

Don't tell me they only kill for food and to stock up on supplies....

Those who have had experience of the fox, know different!!

He is not a fluffy cute puppy, he is a expert/indiscriminant killer .

I bet the deer at Baronsdown are really grateful they have been rescued by the League Against Cruel Sports.

Free to run around in a cloud of patchouli oil to the sound of pan pipes? Nah .... free to die of starvation and tb instead.

Idiots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbgDclFnxdI

LACS director Richard Course was fired after he changed his stance on hunting. His submission to the Burns Enquiry makes very interesting reading

http://www.defra.gov.uk/rural/huntin...submission.htm

He was replaced as Executive Director by James Barrington who later resigned because (yes, you guessed it ...) he found out a bit more about the issue and changed his mind.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ecology...ticle_2103.jsp

I don't intend to get into a debate. I've been there and done that ad tedium.

These two former Directors of LACS make good points if anyone is interested. Once they found out more, they changed their minds.

It is a very sad story and I do sympathise with you but that is totally different from the point I was making. Foxes will kill as will most prey animals but it is instinct with them and not a congnitive thought process "I think I will go in that garden now and kill everything I can just because it feel like it"
Only humans have congnitive thought (ecept perhaps chimps) but that is debatable. Not the same sorry

Excellent post and I think your views on the whole issue are very similar to my own. I am anti killing foxes on a large scale, but could live with a skilled marksman taking out a fox that is being a pest. I can never see this happening though unfortunately Up here grouse, pheasant, partridge shooting etc is BIG business, and I am sure on all sporting estates throughout the country most keepers would be happy for the fox to be persecuted to extinction

Regarding rabbits and rats, I also think that there is no quicker or more humane method than trained dogs. It is all done quickly and efficiently - the same cannot be said for fox hunting.