It is natural Chaz. Do you have cats? They murder countless millions of song birds in this country every year.

It is called nature.

What is not natural is for man to kill for pleasure ... as in fox hunting, which is the topic here. Very few animals kill for pleasure. Man is one of the notable few.

With a "drag" hunt the hounds are following a pre-determined, safe route. With a "live" hunt it is completely random so you don't know where you are likely to go or more importantly what you will have to jump, which heightens the excitement and the enjoyment. For those that have done "live" hunting, "drag" hunting is no substitute.

No actually I don't but if I did and they killed things, it would still be my fault, but you talk about all this natural stuff, is it natural for something to have something else for a pet or companion?? I believe that its not, now adays it is just purely for the benefit of human kind, (the companion animals get a good deal too), so then how is it natural for something that we choose to have to kill other animals?

If we was going back to nature we wouldn't have dogs, and we would live like animals, we wouldn't have rabbits, pheasents, grey squirrels etc in England, we would also have wolves here, which I think would probaly take down a ill or old fox, so in your way is it not natural for dogs (which are releated to wolves) to do the job of a wolf and kill the old and injured, or would it be better to hope that a gun (another unnatural thing) would finish them off for us?

Dawn, shut up !! With the greatest respect, you know damn well that your dogs kill wildlife because you have told me so. I remember you telling me that you went lamping, and I remember you telling me that your borders were great ratters I believe it was. Although I don't remember you saying so, I bet you a pound to a squashy orange that they love to chase and kill rabbits ... and why not, like you I am not a hypocrite just to make a cheap point.

You really are a stirrer. AND you know damn well that fox hunting is ALL about the most amazing fun for horse and rider, as well as hounds, and very little to do with killing old and sick foxes. Even if every single fox in the country were fit, well and healthy, people like you would STILL want to go hunting because, quite simply, it is the most amazing fun ... I know, because I have done it. The thrill of the chase ... there is nothing quite like it. And before you castigate me and call me blood thirsty and a hypocrite, I have already apologised, I am HONEST about my feelings. I loved fox hunting, but as I have said before, it came as a great shock to me the first time Hal ate a rabbit alive, I always thought that dogs ... and of course fox hounds ... killed their prey cleanly. They do not, and to me I found that unacceptable. In addition, we now have the modern-day global problem of desecration of the rain forests and the wiping out of whole species. It is very hard for my old friend the Kalahari Bushman to be told that he mustn't kill elephant for ivory, when we are allowing hounds to tear apart live foxes.

The live hunt is completely random, I agree, but there are several "pauses" ... with drags, there are none, and I for one was not a good enough rider to gallop and jump for long stretches without a break!

Given your history of lying relentlessly which of course can all be proved, is it any wonder nobody believes a single word you say? You even joined under another name and started agreeing with yourself for gods sake to get a bit of support in another thread, one thing Im not going to do is believe you at face value! You were banned for a time for that, is your memory not so good either?

I think I hit the truth with you didnt I? My dogs work for a living, they hunt and kill what we INTEND to, I have never ever let my dogs rampage round the countryside ripping Rabbits up like you have allowed your dogs to do, you should be ashamed of yourself. But thats the thing with you isnt it, your dogs are "different" and what they do is allowed because its "natural" you are such a joke Nikki, such a joke, you provide much entertainment.

I would never allow a PET to start living wild either like you, thats damned irresponsible, but then you are "special" arent you! Pathetic!

YOU JUST NEVER EVER BLOODY SHUT UP DO YOU !! I have noticed that whenever things get a bit sticky for you, you resort to the past. You are incapable of coming up with a good argument ... which is a shame, because actually you are a good debater ... and you have to go and spoil it by being a typical female and go making bitchie comments. You are ALMOST as annoying as me when you do this !! And that says a lot, 'cos I am more than aware that I bang on relentlessly about certain subjects that are close to my heart.

If you go off thread YOU will get a warning ...

But we no longer have use for them, and really the same can be said about cats, I think that its the Siberian forest cat that now works along side people, coming into the villages in the winter, when there is less food in the forests, and killing the mice and rats from people's homes, and many if not all going back to the forest's when it gets warmer, but from animals and people working together, how is the jump from that to so many breeds natural??

So you let your domestic rabbits round the village? How would you feel if they get killed by a dog, because it would be natural? I'm sorry but I believe that this is highly irresponisble, and I would also question where you got your rabbits as you kept them in such a way. Your quest for a natural life for your animals in this example is way too far, and IMO if you or anyone was keeping or have kept their animals like this I believe that they shouldn't have them.

Yes dogs have high prey drives, you should see Diesel when he is out on a walk, I've never met a dog with such a high prey drive, but as a owner unless you are going to teach your dogs how to dispatch animals correctly, or have some control over them at least then it shouldn't happen. You yourself said that your dogs eat rabbits alive, to me you not controlling this makes you more bloodthirsty then any hunter who teaches their dogs to find, catch and dispatch a animal as quickly as possible, and I would be eternally ashamed if I let my dogs do such a horrid act.

O right, that makes it OK then? You talk such a load of tosh, you really do !! "My dogs are allowed to rampage around the countryside ripping rabbits up !" ... you really do exaggerate ... !!

No Dawn, my dogs are not different, all dogs are wolves under the skin

When did I ever say that I allowed a pet to live wild? You really must learn to READ properly Dawn. Having a dislike of keeping animals in cages is totally different from allowing them to live 24/7 in the wild.