I'd say that the dogs try it on quite a bit, but both are still young, it's mainly disobeying commands, or 'naughty' behaviour, and the very occasional grumble.

Sometimes, I may get a grumble when we try and move them from the sofa at bedtime, but generally I ignore it, as I know there is nothing wrong, they just don't want to get up.

They will (very occasionally now) have a bit of a strop about going on a walk, pulling, biting the leads etc. In this case, I just turn round and go home.

I know Max has growled and snapped when being inspected by a trainer. He doesn't do it with me or the family, but I've recognised it as a problem and am working on stopping it happening.

I can deal with a little grumble over something, after all, they're mainly only voicing their displeasure at something.

Please note, off topic posts about the bitten child moved here..
Thank you.
http://www.dogsey.com/showthread.php?t=88269

My eldest Molly grumbles at times when i make (calling her doesn't always work) go out for a wee at night. she is comfy in her basket and doesn't want to go outside. but then i know she will need a wee in the night and will then get herself upset if she messes in the house.
She has only twice snapped at me and that's been because she has been in pain or felt worried. once: she sometimes sleeps on the back rest of the sofa and had slipped off and gotten herself trapped down between the back of the sofa and the wall. our sofa is too heavy for me to move and i had to pull her out by her scruff. something i would never normally do but she was paniciking and as i got hold of her she snapped at me. second time she had ripped her paw open and i was cleaning it she wasn't happy and wanted to clean it herself. neither times I felt she was in the wrong.
My others wouldn't dream of snapping at me they know when i tell them to do something they do it. mostly i just have to "look" at them in "that" way they run off and do as they are told. no smacks nessacery (sp?) just loads of love when they get it right and told off then ignored when they don't.

I totally agree. I've never said 'I don't take crap' - it's that others have said to me 'I wouldn't take any crap' or things to similar effect.

Again, I'm much happier since starting this thread as I'm comfortable with the way my dogs and I communicate - if she does snap unnecessarily (rarely!) she gets a 'time out' but I have never just ignored any snap or growl and pushed it further, I have always took time to work on it and give her no reason to snap in future.

I don't allow my dogs on the furniture (yet again) - it's when they've got up while I wasn't there.

I totally understand what you mean by this, Louise, and the definitions of each you have given is spot on.

Roxy wouldn't say boo to a goose.

Most of the time Molly doesn't like being picked up and she has a wee grumble. Not at all a growl or snarl, no teeth baring or snarling and definitely no malice in it at all. That's about the only time she grumbles at me.

She has never growled or snapped at me, and if she did she would know all about it and would get a severe telling off and banished to another room and ignored for good bit of time!

I would never lift a hand to my dogs.

They're allowed on the furniture, and on the beds, but when I tell them to move, they move. And that's it, no big deal and certainly no growling or snapping. If there was any aggression from them, they would never be allowed on the furniture again.

Having just read your post Westie, it reminds me of when Cassie used to lie on my bed, and I used to say to her in a perfectly normal voice "c'mon, off" and no matter how comfortable she was, she never, ever hesitated, she was straight off it, and she was certainly the type of dog to answer you back or grumble if the fancy took her when she was younger! It also reminded me of when she used to lie on the bed when I was in it, and as soon as the tv went off, she just KNEW without me saying a word, it was time to get into her own bed. That didn't happen to start off with though I used to have to nag her and almost push her off with my legs under the quilt to make her move when she was younger, but even then, she would only grumble, never growl, and she always did it. Awww, that was a lovely memory for me there! You'll get there Lottie

Well since me posting this Takara's been a little angel... not sure if it was me telling her she'd go to live with her breeder if she didn't pack it in!

Recently things have been a bit upside down and she certainly needs solid boundaries to be happy (I think she's autistic).

There is no real pattern to it, as she's been happily getting up and off the sofa just by me asking her to recently but then she got in the chair earlier (while I was there!! Cheeky blighter) and snapped at mum when she went to move her.

I'll try and keep an eye on her and see whether there's anything that triggers it but obviously don't want to upset her by staring at her!

This time, she did snap because her bed was wet and she wanted to be comfy but couldn't sleep on her bed but she's done this other times and got off fine. She did however, get told off because she showed her teeth and that's not ever acceptable and she knows it. She gave no lead up to it and mum's great with her so a growl/grumble would have been sufficient.

She's just a stroppy cow sometimes and to be perfectly honest, so am I so we suit each other well! I'm sure that when the propalin arrives, things will get better.

Aw, Helena, glad it brought back some nice memories for you, even though they are sad too!

Isn't it funny how they just 'get to know" when it's time to move rooms, or move from the bed etc? After Molly and Roxy have had their bedtime tiddles, the oldies (my grandparents) give them their supper which consists of a few wee mini bone biscuits or something like that - my gran does Molly and my granpa does Roxy. They do a series of commands like sit, down, twist and paw for each 'sweet'. They then have their collars taken off if they haven't already got them off already. As soon as they're suppertime is finished, Roxy goes straight to her bed and has a stretch, Molly does the same and goes to her own bed. They just know that's the way it is, and it works.

Excellent post