Update on Leon's Health - We're Still Confused (sorry long post)

It's now been three months since my boy was rushed to the vets and put onto a drip, followed by weeks of diarrhoer (sp) and cowpats, blood and faecal tests, plus ongoing antibiotics.

He had a relapse last month when he finished his course of ab's but, since then, has been quite good and responded well to the ab's. He was on Noroclav, Metronidazole and Predno Leucotropin which was prescribed to help with his arthritis as well as the bad tummy.

His results again came back inconclusive, they know that all his organs are working well, thank goodness, but they still can't grow anything on the culture and all they can say with some degree of confidence is that he has a high volume of bacteria in his gut.

He has lost over 10 kilos in weight since 9th August and although he probably looks and feels better being that much lighter, (he is a heavy boned lad so has never been skinny), I am concerned that he is still losing weight and he will eventually succumb to something serious.

He last went to the vets three weeks ago when he was taken off the noroclav and given another 10 days prescription of the metronidazole. The vet was thrilled with his progress and said that he hoped that he was on the road to recovery and that some dogs have to be on ab's for up to 6 months when they have this sort of problem. I had another lengthy discussion about him being able to have panacur wormer, just incase it was giardia despite it showing as negative, but the vet said that he is too ill to be given that, his stomach lining is far too sensitive but that is why he has been prescribed the metronidazole as it has, apparently, one of the same ingredients as the panacur wormer so would kill off the giardia if he did have it.

Since his bad bout of last month Leon has been on the up and up, you wouldn't know he had anything wrong with him, he looks healthy enough and is enjoying life to the full, he even managed to do a few solid poos towards the end of two weeks ago.

He finished the metronidazole last Monday and the vet said I was to monitor him and let him know how he was, he still was having one of the predno tablets a day for his arthritis but nothing else. After a couple of days his eyeballs went bright red again, (apparently that is the mucus membranes enflaming and he had that last time), and he started straining when trying to pass motions and often didn't pass anything. I waited until Thursday morning and then phoned the vets to let them know what was happening.

We had another lengthy discussion over the phone, the vet suggested they operate to remove some of the tissue in the gut so they can get a clearer picture of whats going on in there. Now, maybe I'm wrong but I feel that to cut him open at this stage, when there is all that bacteria laying around is just asking for trouble and I refused to have it done. I would do anything for my boy but I feel that it is totally the wrong time to go down that route, how can his wound heal itself with the bacteria at the level it is?

I went in and saw the vet on Friday, he has agreed that he can have another 10 days of both the metronidazole and the noroclav, he has to come off the pred for his joints as he feels that could be aggravating his stomach and he has now given him cosequin ds which has has to have 3 times a day for 30 days, reducing to 2 tablets daily thereafter.

I'm not a vet so am only going on gut instinct but surely, if his tummy is fine when he is on the ab's then it can't be anything more sinister that the bacteria overgrowth. The vet is again suggesting mal-absorbtion and said that the reason Leon isn't skin and bone is because I've kept on top of things and got him to the vets for treatment as soon as there has been any sign of anythign wrong. He has also suggested bowel disease, one of the reasons he wants to give him a GA and take a sample, but would ab's keep that at bay as well as they have done? Surely if you have bowel disease there's only one way to cure it and that is to remove the diseased part.

He has his Purina EN complete food once a day with either chicken, fish or eggs, and he has toast or bread with some fish, chicken or eggs for breakfast and lunch time so he can take his tablets. He has the odd custard cream too but only maybe one or two a week, other than that he isn't haveing any treats, just so I can make sure his tummy is tolerating what he is being given.

I've cried so much lately over him and the others but am now just getting desperate to sort him out. As I said, he is in no pain or discomfort, in fact he is enjoying his walks so much he has me out about 5 times a day and we walk for about a mile and half each time...possibly another reason he has lost weight.

So, neither I or the vet really know whats wrong with him, just that when he's on the ab's his toiletting is normal, within days of coming off them he is straining and either passing nothing or cowpats...and his eyes look enflamed too but calm down as soon as he is back on the ab's.

We're now up to £700 in costs, we've not had any money back yet from the insurance company and although he will still receive any treatment he needs, I just wonder if the insurers can decide they aren't going to cover him, especially if the vets can't actually give a firm diagnosis.

Second opinion I think is needed.

I do know PLT is not great for stomachs but am not a vet so maybe its OK in your circumstances.

Your vet shouldn't mind you asking

rune

Thanks for that, the vet we are at now is the 2nd vet to treat him as we moved from Northampton to Buckinghamshire 4 weeks ago. He performed exactly the same tests as the previous vet and, suprise suprise, got exactly the same results..all organs working fine, large amount of bacteria in the gut. The only thing he did differently was to prescribe different ab's and, I have to admit, Leon did recover more quickly on those than the first ones.

The PLT was prescribed by the first vet as he said it is a steroid and should help with the tummy problems, it was only when I asked on Friday whether he should continue that the 2nd vet said that he would rather he went onto the Cosequin as that doesn't contain anything that could aggravate his tummy.

I wonder if I can ask this new vet to refer us to a specialist, at least that way we may get some answers. My head is spinning, I can tell you

I think I would be asking for recommendation to a specialist, Sheree.

Hope they give it.....

Hugs chicken xxx

Please ask for a refferal to a specialist. Over 2 years my vet battled with milo but just couldn't find the problem.
As soon as the specialist done an endoscope and saw all the inflamation and then got the biopsey results we knew what was going on.
Milos bloods apart from when he was anemic always come back clear and still do as do poo samples etc.
You would be surprised what a specialist notices as well that your own vet would miss however good they are.

I really feel for you, as I am going through the same sort of thing with my Sadie (see my last post in Sadies Eye Ulcer just Won't Heal).

When you know what the problem is, you can face it and fight it, but when it is unclear, you feel so helpless and depressed. And yes, I've cried as well.

All I can say is good luck, and yes, I would also go for second opinion, which is probably what I shall end up doing.

Sorry no advice Sheree. Just (((Hugs))) for you and Leon and I hope they can sort it soon.

Oh Sheree, poor Leon, I would also agree and ask to see a specialist, maybe get him to have an endoscopy and then they can see the state of his stomach and bowel without opening him up? Then they can do a biopsy that way surely? Please give him a (((BIG HUG))) from me xxx

Sheree, I am so sorry to hear of this and hugs to you and Leon. I have had that confusion with Scratch, I know it can be scary to do anything other what you have been doing and worried it will make it worse rather than better but a state of going just okay to just not right is hard and only further investigation or changes will give you answers. I would be going to a specialist to see what ideas they can come up with.
Also wondering if his diet has anything to do with it, not sure if dogs should have bread as they can be allergic to grains etc, and custard creams, Scratch is on an exclusion diet and it seems to have helped even though he was on and ultra allergenic free diet before he still had problems and thought it futile to change and I was sooooooooo worried, as some on here would know, but he has improved and his poo's had gone from runny to solid (all but once). Just a thought.
Such a horrible time, you think you can cry no more tears but they keep coming.
Hugs again to you and Leon
Emma xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Thank you so much for the advice and hugs...I really feel caught between a rock and a hard place with Leon, he seems so well at the moment I just cannot justify having him opened up, a friend lost a 17 month old setter following an op when the wound nectratised (sp?) and just wouldn't heal...I'm petrified that something like that could happen if he was cut open at the moment with all those bad bacteria in his system. Obviously if it were a matter of life of death that he had to have an op then there would be no question of it, but it just doesn't sit right with my conscience at this moment in time.

Its early days with me and this vet as we only registered when we moved and it was an emergency, I didn't have a chance to do any research on local vets..although he did get Leon back on his feet pretty quickly following this last relapse, certainly faster than the other vet had managed and Leon was vomitting with the recent bout, something he hadn't done previously. I also feel like this vet listens to me and doesn't undermine what I have to say or ask, he certainly understood why I didn't want him to operate just yet.

I have to drop Leon's claim form off this morning so I shall ask about having him referred to a specialist and see what they say, its not as if I'm doubting their skills, just that I want whats best for him.

Thanks again everyone xx