No, it means exactly what I said Patch! He has produced affected puppies regardless of the tests available at the time, its those poor Dogs I feel sorry for, nobody else. Im not apologising for anything.

I have been on the recieving end of dodgy blood tests myself, a dog that was clear, obviously wasnt, BUT, I will say that if Mary had her Dog retested then thats good for her, because the ****** that I was involved with wouldnt and the dog was still subsequently used!

Why is the stud dog always blamed?

Dawn, he`d had the tests available at the time which indicated he was fine to breed from, that is the case for every single BC breeder who had the available tests done before DNA testing was sorted, and goes for every breeder of any breed for which tests are now available which did`nt used to be but made the effort to utilise whatever tests could be done - the science which indicated there was no problem is the issue, not the breeders who utilised and trusted in that science.

Is it really so hard for you to say you may have made an assumption which was rather unfair given that the dog in question was tested by what was available at the time and was used for stud because the science indicated it was ok to do so ?

Can`t you honestly say that through less gritted teeth ? What about TNS ? So recently discovered, but thankfully a test sorted quickly - but can breeders of past TNS affected litters be blamed for breeding a condition which was`nt identified before and which could`nt be tested for until recently ?

why do you feel sorry for the dogs? They would only be mildly affected and it is not a progressive disease like PRA so if it shows in a pup it does not get any worse through it's life. I know of a couple of dogs in agility that are affected from litters that were born around the time the DNA test became available, it hasn't affected their quality of life in any way

I think this thread needs to be separated as it has gone waay off topic for several pages!!



I totally agree with you Hali. Whilst I totally admire Mary Ray and her dogs performances, I do feel it is time for a change.

I would love to see a Gundog or Police/Army Display team for instance. Or some working trial performance - something different for a change.

Not taking anything away from Mary and her outstanding ablilities as a trainer either. I think she is amazing, but I do feel it is time to allow others into the spotlight - literally!!

Now that would be great, something different but equally spectacular!
Becky

I didn't watch her this year, I only really watch small parts of the crufts programmes on the telly as I find the presenters really annoying but I do agree. I would love to watch something like this with the police or army dogs showing what they can do

My Willow has CEA too. In his case, he was from a merle to merle mating at a time when breeders knew damned well that it could well happen, [ he is also deaf as a result, as is Defa, as is Silk ].
Now those merle to merle breeders I feel intense anger toward because they knew the risks but did`nt give a hoot. So when I know of breeders taking avoidable risks I jump on them from a great height.
But the ones who did have tests done as were available and believed that everything was ok because that`s what the results indicated, to feel anger toward them would be wrong, they are not to blame for science being too slow to give the knowledge available now.

Does Willow `suffer` because he has CEA ?
Nope.
He does`nt know any different, he does`nt know that his vision is impaired compared to other dogs` sight.
No one wants their dog to have an imperfection obviously, but he has it, can`t change that, so as he is happy to just get on with enjoying life I`m not going to sit wringing my hands over him being a `poor dog`

I`m working on some choreographed stuff with my agility students, some bits using the equipment and some not, just for a bit of extra fun and hopefully to use when we start doing displays locally - wonder if I can get it good enough for my people to take the spotlight one year

A dog with mild CEA does not have impaired vision, it is an abnormality in the development of their eye, a severely affected dog however is a totally different matter as is merle to merle breeding