register for free
View our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
Our sister sites
duboing
Dogsey Veteran
duboing is offline  
Location: Liverpool, UK
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,477
Female 
 
27-10-2006, 08:28 PM
Next week - green westies
Reply With Quote
Nursey
Almost a Veteran
Nursey is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,157
Female 
 
27-10-2006, 08:35 PM
Ermmm, is it a fault then, for a West Highland White Terrier to be green.

Dawn R.
Reply With Quote
duboing
Dogsey Veteran
duboing is offline  
Location: Liverpool, UK
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 3,477
Female 
 
27-10-2006, 08:41 PM
Originally Posted by Nursey View Post
Ermmm, is it a fault then, for a West Highland White Terrier to be green.

Dawn R.
Not at all Dawn, just non-standard
Reply With Quote
Nursey
Almost a Veteran
Nursey is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 1,157
Female 
 
27-10-2006, 08:46 PM
Oh here we go again

I think we might be in trouble for going off topic.

Dawn R.
Reply With Quote
Ripsnorterthe2nd
Dogsey Veteran
Ripsnorterthe2nd is offline  
Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
Female 
 
27-10-2006, 09:42 PM
Originally Posted by gracelund View Post
sorry I just had to see what a blue looked like so googled there was also this info attached to the picture so maybe america doesnt recognise blue either

# Q. What is a 'Blue' Weimaraner?
A. The blue coat color of the Weimaraner is similar to the smokey blue/black coat of the Great Dane. The color is tracable to one imported German dog bred under controversial circumstances. There are disagreements on the the origins of his blue color. Some strongly believe he was the result of a cross between a Doberman and a Weimaraner, others think he was severely inbred. Very few Weimaraners survived World War I where he originated. He had a black nose, blue/black fur and other features uncharacteristic to Weimaraners.

Regardless of where the color originated, the fact remains that blue is a disqualifying fault in the official AKC standard. Blue Weimaraners cannot be shown. They are NOT considered "rare". The color can arise in a puppy whose littermates have the accepted mousy gray coloring. A dark coated normal gray Weim definately is not a blue. The blue is very distinctive as it is nearly charcoal black: there is no such thing as a little bit blue.

#

The following is from Page 55 of Weimaraner Ways, by Virginia Alexander and Jackie Isabell:
"The necessary majority of the WCA membership approved a revision of the standard that disqualified the blues, and it went into effect in 1971. The disqualification bars blues from show competition and WCA ratings but does not invalidate their AKC registration. Most fanciers who supported the blues simply accepted the disqualification and bred no more blues. . .

"Weimaraners remain one of the breeds characterized by a specific color; the uniquely silver-gray color is the hallmark of the Weimaraner in all other countries and evidence of its ancient origin. WCA has every right - indeed, a responsibility - to discourage the breeding of Weimaraners that are not of the typical, traditional color."

# Q. What is a 'Brown' Weimaraner?
A. There is a group of people in this country who think they are breeding a better Weimaraner by breeding German Shorthair Pointers to them. They truly believe at some point everyone will think they are improving the breed. It is disturbing at times to receive letters from pet owners asking about 'brown' Weimaraners. Even though these dogs are not papered, they are being sold as true Weimaraners to unsuspecting buyers. The color is the brown of the GSP. One of the most distinctive features of the Weim is its grey coloring, I can not imagine why someone would want to change that. If they want to hunt with a GSP, they should go buy one! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BROWN WEIMARANER. END OF CASE.
So they're not even a standard colour in the US?

I think it's fair enough if you want to import a dog and breed it as long as it's health tested etc. But it seems a very expensive thing to do just because you consider the colour to be beautiful. If they're not even allowed to be shown from the exporting country, then what's the chance of them being accepted here?

Very strange!
Reply With Quote
pod
Dogsey Veteran
pod is offline  
Location: UK
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,558
Female 
 
27-10-2006, 10:46 PM
Originally Posted by gracelund View Post
sorry I just had to see what a blue looked like so googled there was also this info attached to the picture so maybe america doesnt recognise blue either

# Q. What is a 'Blue' Weimaraner?
A. The blue coat color of the Weimaraner is similar to the smokey blue/black coat of the Great Dane. The color is tracable to one imported German dog bred under controversial circumstances. There are disagreements on the the origins of his blue color. Some strongly believe he was the result of a cross between a Doberman and a Weimaraner, others think he was severely inbred. Very few Weimaraners survived World War I where he originated. He had a black nose, blue/black fur and other features uncharacteristic to Weimaraners.

Regardless of where the color originated, the fact remains that blue is a disqualifying fault in the official AKC standard. Blue Weimaraners cannot be shown. They are NOT considered "rare". The color can arise in a puppy whose littermates have the accepted mousy gray coloring. A dark coated normal gray Weim definately is not a blue. The blue is very distinctive as it is nearly charcoal black: there is no such thing as a little bit blue.

#

The following is from Page 55 of Weimaraner Ways, by Virginia Alexander and Jackie Isabell:
"The necessary majority of the WCA membership approved a revision of the standard that disqualified the blues, and it went into effect in 1971. The disqualification bars blues from show competition and WCA ratings but does not invalidate their AKC registration. Most fanciers who supported the blues simply accepted the disqualification and bred no more blues. . .

"Weimaraners remain one of the breeds characterized by a specific color; the uniquely silver-gray color is the hallmark of the Weimaraner in all other countries and evidence of its ancient origin. WCA has every right - indeed, a responsibility - to discourage the breeding of Weimaraners that are not of the typical, traditional color."

# Q. What is a 'Brown' Weimaraner?
A. There is a group of people in this country who think they are breeding a better Weimaraner by breeding German Shorthair Pointers to them. They truly believe at some point everyone will think they are improving the breed. It is disturbing at times to receive letters from pet owners asking about 'brown' Weimaraners. Even though these dogs are not papered, they are being sold as true Weimaraners to unsuspecting buyers. The color is the brown of the GSP. One of the most distinctive features of the Weim is its grey coloring, I can not imagine why someone would want to change that. If they want to hunt with a GSP, they should go buy one! THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A BROWN WEIMARANER. END OF CASE.
Sounds highly dodgy to me! It's not actually possible for blue to spontaneously occur from lilac (silver-grey) breeding (except for rare chance mutation) because blue is dominant to lilac. And servere inbreeding certainly wouldn't cause it.

I'd say the Dobermann cross is a good explanation.
Reply With Quote
Lottie
Dogsey Veteran
Lottie is offline  
Location: Sheffield
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,856
Female 
 
28-10-2006, 12:25 AM
One question, Random... Is she right in saying it's the first blue litter in the UK?

Sounds to me like a lot of dally breeders who say 'look these blue dalmatians are rare' NO they're not - they're just not recognised and the gene is recessive so not as many of them.

I have to agree, it seems strange that you'd want to 'introduce' if that's what she's doing and there are no blues in this country, a colour that isn't recognised in the breed standard.

I have a firm belief in only breeding to improve the breed and to take parents who are as close to the breed standard as possible. If blue is not in the breed standard, then she is not doing this.

So although I dont' have an issue with the price as such, as I believe in selling pets and show dogs for the same amount of money - any show dog can become 'unworthy' of the show ring for any reason - I don't think I quite understand why you'd want to breed dogs deliberately away from the breed standard

Is there a reason blue is not recognised in the breed standard?
In dalmatians, it's a lack of pigmentation in black dalmatians, so although called blue, it's actually just a faded black! therefore, not recognised.
Reply With Quote
Lottie
Dogsey Veteran
Lottie is offline  
Location: Sheffield
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,856
Female 
 
28-10-2006, 12:27 AM
sorry, didn't read the whole thread again... getting late, shouldn't be here etc.

So are they crossed to create this colour?
Reply With Quote
Ripsnorterthe2nd
Dogsey Veteran
Ripsnorterthe2nd is offline  
Location: Co. Durham, UK
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,213
Female 
 
28-10-2006, 12:30 AM
Originally Posted by Lottie View Post
sorry, didn't read the whole thread again... getting late, shouldn't be here etc.

So are they crossed to create this colour?
See Pod and Gracelunds posts for the best answer to this question!
Reply With Quote
LolaDobie
Dogsey Junior
LolaDobie is offline  
Location: Leitrim, Ireland
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 48
Female 
 
28-10-2006, 12:54 AM
Originally Posted by Lottie View Post

Is there a reason blue is not recognised in the breed standard?
In dalmatians, it's a lack of pigmentation in black dalmatians, so although called blue, it's actually just a faded black! therefore, not recognised.
And as for the white Dobermann, as Kath mentioned above, there is every reason for not breeding from those!
http://whitedobes.doberinfo.com/
Reply With Quote
Reply
Page 3 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 


© Copyright 2016, Dogsey   Contact Us - Dogsey - Top Contact us | Archive | Privacy | Terms of use | Top