Theres positive pressure & negative stress. i ask alot of my dogs to improve preformance, but any stress will cause them to go back.

If i had taken on a dog with issues that the ACD had (i like Colliemad would have STOPPED that behavoiur early on with our own dogs)

Firstly i would spend WEEKS building up a relationship with the dog, & monitor the dog so nipping could not happen. In order to break the habit & habituation behaviour & i wouldnt want the dog to think that it could ever do that with me. All this time id be kindly teaching a instant down, & also food & toy refusal eg "leave it",
id themn when i was happy with my training bond & control, test the dog in a very mild way (ie so it COULD succeed)whilst i was around with a Dummy person, that person would have treats or a toy to reward the dog, id gradually up the anti, supervising & taking a step back if i needed to. Id mainley have used 5 things

A new bond with the dog
A break in the dogs Habituation
A instant down ,to improve my control at a distance over the dog,
A leave it command that the dog understood
& reward for correct behavoiur

IF the dog liked balls i MIGHT use a tennis racket to hit the balls across the field as reward!!!!!

Mish as you know I am a perfect owner with perfect dogs and therefore they have very few issues.
but Syd my male Dobie likes to bark at animals on the tv. agravated by the fact that it is a large 422 tv and hung fairly high on the wall, so the animals are always higher than him. I tried everything to get him to stop with little success, so eventually I submitted him to what a lot of anti cm'rs would call flooding. We sat and watched endless episodes of the dog whisperer, dog borstal and it's me or the dog. During this time I told him quiet and made him sit, he expressed his displeasure loudly, so he was told to lie down and again he was barking and when told to stop he grumbled loudly and was tense. So I told him to submit, something I have trained previously, he lies on his side and relaxes, if he raises his head I use one finger and push his head back down telling him submit after a couple of attempts at grumbling he lies down head on floor and falls asleep.
No trauma, to him, me or the OH who is trying to sleep. Now when I want to watch a dog program or a wild life program I tell him to lie down and submit and peace reigns supreme.
Can't video as I can never work out how to load the thing after I've filmed it.

So true - 58 pages and not really got that nasty at all
and I know your boy is much loved and you do the best for him as I do with mine - no matter if we disagree on this one point

and yes in all these cases the owners have caused the problem - I would have fixed it differently but hey ho - if we were all the same then everyone would want my squaw

Why should the dog have to be forced to submit ? Surely better to gain dogs trust so that he is happy and willing to lay down on cue ?

Sorry but that`s the same sort of excuse used by pro-choker users, that the dog is hurting themselves - no, the dog is trying to defend, to escape, from completely unnecessary situations which the dog has been forced into with no regard to the dogs ability to cope with that situation

My ex `red zoner` on the other hand, will happily lay down and offer me his tum for tickling, its a game, its pleasant and relaxing for him, he has`nt been stressed or forced into `complying.
I would rather a dog lay down willingly and with confidence that it is not going to lead to anything fearsome for the dog than to have to be forced down and scared about it.

i have no dout that would work but it would be too expencive to get someone in for that amount of time

How is agility stressful?? if it is then you are going to the wrong schools
My boy has loved it from day one, never has he been stressed
Tunnels were started squished up as hoops and all the dogs in the class were running them fully out in a couple of goes loving every min
infact most dogs love the tunnel so much that its hard to get them to stop doing it
the contact obsticles were started on the floor and in no way were the dogs stressed - again Ben loves to be up high showing off

we also have a v shy dog doing agility and it has been so good for her
she shied away from all people and was scared of dogs (excpt ben)but now she wonders up to people and is so relaxed - and she can stand on the dogwalk for hours getting the admiring glances cos she knows she is stunning

Ben can be unsure in some situations (the other day I felt the lead go tight and looked back to a dog feet planted scared to go on the pink textured blind pavement at the pedestrian crossing, I just laughed, dropped the lead and walked on, he plucked up courage, put a paw on it, saw it was OK and then ran over to me wagging his tail happily - proud that he had figured out the scary thing. now that didnt even really happen to Ben at agility but that is about the extent ofthe stress I see at agility - apprehention at a strange new surface and joy when they have figured out it is fun

I only do agility cos my boy loved the bits we did at training class
if in any way he had disliked it then I would not have done it
if he ever dislikes it I will stop

It has made him so much more confident - last week he actually followed my b/f and climbed a tree!!

It has made my friends mad OTT collie pup (who they had tried to domonate) calm a bit, bond with them and be more attentive to commands

What on earth have you seen in agility training that makes it any way akin to winding a dog up till it attacks and then choking it??

never said agility makes a dog attack just said it could stress some dogs while they are learning to do it

Gosh, I'm quite shocked by this. I was led to believe that Dogsey was a friendly place to be.

Precisely, yes.
That`s why my ex-biters have not been rehabbed with force or by adding to their fears, instead they have been given confidence and the ability to cope in situations which previously caused them sheer terror. To punish a dog for being afraid is horrendous cruelty imo but that`s exactly what CM does to them

Also at no time does he ever mention the possibility of a physical / medical cause for a problem.
Jonbee for instance, did the dog ever get seen by a chiropractor to see if he had a previous spinal injury which was causing him to be so reactive at his back being touched with force to try to make him lay down ?
Nope.
Was there any mention of a blood panel to see if he had a thyroid imbalance ? [ a very common cause of aggression in dogs ].
Nope.
Can`t remember who posted it now but a dog which had suffered at his hands did subsequently turn out to have been very unwell or had a bad injury, I can`t remember the exact details now - but health is something CM seems to completely disregard as a possible cause of problems in dogs, I don`t think it occurs to him, let alone to say on his programs that any excessive behaviours should have any medical cause investigated and ruled out first, nor does he consider foods as a factor but anyone who has worked with `problem` dogs will attest that health and feeding are vitally important considerations before proceeding to attempting any behaviour modification regardless of method.

Well you arent being very friendly are you? What do you want a hug?