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Wysiwyg
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28-11-2010, 09:15 AM
I understand that dog on dog attacks are covered by law - not by the DDA but by the 1871 Act. This Act is still in force, see here:

http://www.endangereddogs.com/EDDRDogLaw.htm

scroll right down till you get to the Dogs Act 1871.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/1998/929.html

Do investigate this yourself, but as far as I am aware, this is a current Act that can be brought into effect. It was held that a dog could be considered "dangerous" and "not kept under proper control" within the meaning of Section 2 of the Dogs Act 1871, even if the only danger shown was to other dogs, and not to humans.

Being dangerous reflected the dog's disposition, not his acts. So I guess that would have to be proved... (?)So for example, one dog/dog attack by an individual dog may not be enough to show the dog was "dangerous" but then this goes into solicitor's territory really, as it's too easy to surmise.

To be honest it may be easier to ask yourself how frightened you were, (I imagine pretty scared) and that may be enough to get something done under the DDA itself.... as under section 3. a person has only to be scared for the owner of the "dangerous dog" to be liable.



Wys
x
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k9paw
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28-11-2010, 09:50 AM
Am so sorry to read this, what a terrible shock for you all. Hope that Toffee recovers soon and you'll all be ok. Three people here have been told about the civil court recently after a similar incident. Healing thoughts and hugs x
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Kerryowner
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28-11-2010, 10:07 AM
Originally Posted by sarah1983 View Post
I've been told exactly the same thing by the police, they don't deal with dog on dog incidents and I'd need to contact the dog warden. I'd still call and report it though and see what they say.
Yes- agree as the police told me that when Cherry was attacked. Dog warden was about as much good as a chocolate teapot too!

Hoping and praying you are both feeling better-know how upsetting this situation can be.
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Tass
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28-11-2010, 07:39 PM
The DDA is criminal law so has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt, and it doesn't relate to being scared for the safety and welfare of your dog, but only to people being scared of possible injury to people. It can be judged on a single incidence, although evidence of previous similar incidents may add weight to the case.

The court may direct that a behavioural assessment be made of the dogs to assess their temperaments. Be aware the owner of the other dog may not give the same account of events as you, e.g such as claiming your dog was the off lead aggressor and came into his garden.

It also only applies to injury, or potential injury, to humans, and it only applies to public places so if your poor dog was attacked on the public path/pavement it could apply,(subject to you being concerned for your own safety during the attack).

If she was in the private garden of the other dog owner ( or if the other dog's owner could convince the court she was) it would not apply.

The Dogs Act 1871 does relate to dog to dog aggression, (amongst other situations), and is civil law and so has the lower burden of proof of being judged on the balance of probability, but that would include judging whether the probability was an isolated (or excusable) incident, or an indication of a more general or recurring problem.

Compensation can be awarded in a civil case, but not in a criminal case. Either can impose a control order, or order destruction of the dog. A criminal case can also ban someone from keeping dogs.

You could try to reclaims your vet fees through the small claims court but you would still have to prove your case and they have no authority to impose any control on the dog.

A lot of the normal PCs know very little about dog law, so ask if you can speak to a dog handler, or even better, if they have a special section to deal with dangerous dogs, as some police areas do.

I hope you and Toffee are feeling much better soon, what a dreadful experience for you all.
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Northernsoulgirl
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28-11-2010, 08:01 PM
So sorry to hear this, what a dreadful fright you all had.
I hope Toffee is feeling a bit better today but from her injuries I am guessing it will be a long haul for her.
Sending hugs to you all. GIllx
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suew
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29-11-2010, 10:02 AM
I am so touched by all the healing thoughts and advice. Thankyou so much everyone. Toffee is, we hope, doing well, sleeping a lot, but looks quite bright eyed when she is awake. We are at the vets tomorrow for a check up. She is being a very good girl and taking her medicines well. She is on two loads of antibiotics twice daily, and metacam. I hope she is not left with any psychological trauma, she has been such a happy go lucky dog until now.
Thank you so much for the legal advice, I have been looking at it all weekend, and think maybe we do have some redress under the 1871 Act. Toffee was on a lead, and the attack took place on the pavement outside the other dogs house (It ran out of an open front door and open front gate to get to Toffee). I had noticed this dog before, hurling itself at the front window every time I walked past with my dogs, and honestly (stupidly) thought it was just a crazy silly dog, and even smiled to myself about it and thought "daft dog", now I know how much sinister that hurling itself at the window was, it was trying to get to my dogs. Yes I was also scared for myself, the dog looked completely mad, and it was large, the whites of its eyes were going red with rage, oh God, I cannot even think about it, I keep getting flashbacks and feel sick.
The policeman who phoned me on Friday said he would call me again today, so will give him the info re the above Acts and hope to God that something is done.
Please keeep sending out these lovely postivie vibes to Toffee, I so appreciate all this.
Flo is fine, we now wonder if bless her, she was doing a "Lassie" and running home for help, but she is the sort of dog who hasnt worked out that if you want attention, sometimes you have to bark for it, so my husband had no idea she was sitting on the doorstep. He now feels traumatised and awful that he hadnt come with us on that walk due to having a cold that day. This is the sort of damage that these irresponsible owners just dont realise they cause, in addition to the dreadful physical injuries. I will update more with Tofffees progress as the week goes on. Thank you everyone once again
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tokiayla
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29-11-2010, 10:33 AM
Good to hear Toffee is doing well, and Flo too.
I hope too that she is not too affected by this - that would just add to the whole upsetting situation - fingers crossed she can forget.....
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bint
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29-11-2010, 10:48 AM
awful!
Hope Toffee has a speedy recovering, poor thing!
Hope you get somewhere with regards to offending dog/owner! The least he could do would be to pay your vet's bill and ensure this cannot happen again!
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suew
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13-01-2011, 03:21 PM
Just a quick update, and apolgies it took so long!

Toffee is now , thank God, fully recovered!!. Her stiches came out on Day 14, then three more weeks of cage rest, and she was as good as new. I am SO SO lucky and so grateful that she pulled through this, and just know how lucky we are.

She is still terrified at going out, but the vet has said that to be hones, she doesnt NEED to be taken for walks to get excercise as she is so tiny, so, as she seems happy just running around the house and garden, and shakes at the sight of the front door, we are leaving it that way for now. We took her to the groomers last week, and bless her, she shook in the car all the way there and back (she used to love car journeys). She startles more easily too, much more easily spooked by noises and shadows (my shopping bag in the hall in the gloom of evening seemed to provoke absolute terror in her, until i brought it to her to show her what it was) Hopefully time will heal all this, but otherwise, she is back to her mischievous self!!

The owner who was not the man in charge of the attackign dog at the time, contacted us after we put a not through the door of whom we thought was the owner, and paid all our expenses, and wrote a totally wonderful and apologetic letter. He does however still have the dog, and the police have issued him with an official caution to keep it under control. I have to say, the police were marvelous in all this, and constantly updated me and phoned me severral times to let me know what was happening, even the day the caution was issued, to let me know it had been. I cannot fault them at all.

Thankyou everyone for your kindness once again, it really really helped at what was an awful, traumatic time. I am truly grateful.
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suecurrie
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13-01-2011, 03:41 PM
Lovely to hear that Toffee has recovered from her physical injuries. I think it will take quite a while for her to gain confidence when outside, but as you say, playing in the house and garden is sufficient for now so no need to stress her. I think if I had been attacked to an inch of my life I would be terrified of going out.

Nice also to hear that the owner paid all your expenses and the police there have been wonderful.

Lots of hugs to Toffee. xxxx
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