yes the standard is there, but there are standards for all KC recognised breeds

Have none of you ever had a mongrel/cross or whatever then? they dont have a standard do they but lets face it they are always gonna be around. at least with the original bred stafford it is historic not a made up cross etc. the stafford of today evolved from it.

Well said STB LOVER at last, I can agree on this thread.

A lot of SBT owners do not understand the fact that if it was not for the original standards then todays standards would not be here.

How come its ok to change everything all the time, but when someone wants to preserve the way they REALLY should look like, people jump down your throats.

What makes me laugh in a puzzled way is, alot of people believe that just by breeding a 16 inch male to a 15 inch bitch then they wont go over standards.

Without of without standard all staffords do come in different shapes and sizes. Id like to have someone try and tell Jack Bernard people like that who owned KC reg stafford all those years ago how they where not real staffords.

What a shame....

I agree Hayley,
I've heard people saying oh my bitch is top end standard i'll go to a short dog If only it was that simple eh?

I would have loved to see the look on those guys faces,if somebody had said that to them,they knew exactly how they wanted their dogs to be.

i don't think it's dangerous if done correctly! infact i have nothing against the breed standard as it is today i just prefer the "irish line" of staff as it is more athletic NOT necessarily more muscular or stronger but taller and fitter everyone has different preferences to what they like in a dog it would be a pretty boring world if everyone wanted the same!

Your dog will only be fitter if you exercise it and give it a good diet, not just by breeding taller.
I own an 18" stafford he came from standard parents fine it happens but the intention to breed taller was not there and that is the difference.
My 18" is lovely and we love him but he is not available for stud.

maybe your dog is a "throw back" to the original standard lol
do you have any pics of him i'd love to see him!

He most likely is but I also live in Merseyside and he did not go out of the house for a couple of weeks.
Oscar 18" is the black and white one

My Seren has parents that are 15" and 16",
just because of this does in no way mean she will be a 15-16" bitch, but theres more chance of it,
If you breed 18" staffords theres a chance you could end up with a 20" pups
how I see it is all breeds start somewhere, then over the years they refine certain qualitys of the breed, in the case of the stafford there was no need for it to be tall and muscular anymore, I suppose they wanted to rid the breed 'fighting past' to a degree, what ever the reason it must be a good one, I do not think that the stafford of today is any less healthy, but I do think that the original stafford would of been more dangerous, but only as it was more agile.
There is a reason for everything, there is a standard for a reason

Lead staffs the intention to breed a dog over 18 inches is infact over the correct original standard heights! 15-18 inches was the desired height. Anyone breeding to aim for a 20 inch stafford and even taller than that is just plain rudunkalous to be honest lol!

I cannot abide too see 'staffords' 20 inches plus, because that is way to over height, forget the show ring its just too tall.
I also hate too see breeders aim for exaggeration which does happen and it only happens in the show ring, just like breeding to aim for 20 inch plus staffords tends to happen within the athletic lines alot.

BUT for health reasons if people are gonna breed one or the other Id only want to see taller dogs not exaggerated dogs that find it hard to breathe when it walks a mile or too, but would like to neither happen with the breed

15-18 inches is expectable to me

Clair there is no possible way of being certain that breeding an 18 inch staffords you would get a 20 inch stafford. you could get 18 inch, 17 inch, 16 inch etc.

I know a 19 inch stafford (which IS MAX MAX height for me) that was bred to an 17 inch bitch, 4 out of 5 pups where 16 and half inches the other was 17 and quarter inches.

I also know a 15 inch bitch who was covered by a 16 inch male and they had a 19 inch pup, from show lines too.

Height really is just pot luck in staffords.