Ok...I deal with aggression - and I don't get bitten that much.....

I would also like to point out - that part of the job is educating owners - if he did not feel the prong collar was an acceptable method he would not advocate it.....and I find it hard to believe that a prong collar does not hurt the dog however it is used. If it did not - it would not work. What I think he does is teach owners how to use the collar without doing any visible damage to the dog.

ok am sorry

just what i thought!!!
i think it just depends on the person and the particular dog, i dont think this 'is he good or bad thing' is ever going to be resolved on here cause everyone has different opinions.

maybe he thinks it is ok if used properly and not just to pull the dog around, if you have a very large strong dog then maybe some owners feel safer and in more control with one on, that doesnt mean they will be yanking on it all the time hurting the dog.

just my opinion though

So to all these people, and to be fair there aren't that many on this site, that think prong collars are 'ok'. Would you swop your toddlers reins for a rather snazzy set that had little spikes that pinched them (obviously without pain if used correctly)? If not why not? Surely a few days or weeks of discomfort have got to be worth ensuring your toddler is terrified, I mean 'trained' not to run away from you.

*Takes deep breath, and bites tongue hard*

What you will probably find is, that when the normal collar goes back on, the behaviour resumes, dog's or at least the ones I know, aren't stupid, they know what causes the pain, so when the cause is removed, the effect stops.

So in effect, you cause your dog pain, for no true result, you don't solve the issue, you mask it.

Which is the same with the rest of Mr. Milan's methods, its about masking, not solving, giving the appearance of a solution, but its all smoke and no fire.

His philosophy is based on outdated experiments the result of which have been proven to be inaccurate. Wild wolves don't behave the same as captive wolves, and neither behave in the same way as domestic dogs.

Compairing them is like compairing a moggy to a mountain lion. Both are cats, both will share some similarities in behaviour, doesn't make them identical though does it?

Refering back to an earlier post of yours. No I don't get cesar, there was a time when I was indifferent to him, then I saw his more extreme methods, and really looked at the dog's and their reactions, and now, I have to switch the channel the sec he comes on, as he disgusts me.

Are you a supporter of e collars?
Do you advicate choking dogs with slip leads?
Do you support the use of flooding techniques?

If no, then why do you support a man who does? if yes, then have you tried those methods on yourself? if not, then I suggest you do, I'll give you less than 30 seconds before your begging for mercy.

Do you believe that fido is plotting with his doggy friends to overthrow human authorities and take over the world?. In other words, do you believe that every behaviour displayed by a dog, is an attempt to dominate us human's?

Mr. Milan is in the, its so much easier to destroy catergory. He calls it cured, when what he's really done is take what in many cases is already damaged, and break it further, smashing what was cracked and fragile, the problem is, that putting the pieces back together, is not as easy as taking them apart.

I personally think CM is a bully and completely ignorant of a dogs body language. The "dominant" dogs he works with often seem to show worried or downright scared body language rather than the confidence a dominant dog would show. The dogs are frightened of him, show avoidance behaviours and his idea of "calm submission" is an absolute joke, that isn't calmness or submission, it's a shut down dog or a dog too exhausted to fight any more.

And don't even get me started on how he treated the poor dog who was absolutely terrified of the vets. He forced her into accepting whatever was done, got bitten by her (she had never bitten, just kicked up a huge fuss), muzzled her and carried on forcing her into a situation that scared her horribly. The poor dog ended up completely shut down and I imagine ended up even more terrified of the vet than she was when he started "fixing" the issue. I was in tears for that poor dog.

Yep agree with that, the best for your dog,........ however i cant see CM been good for anybodies dog

my puppy has been fine in the slip lead and i plan to keep using it as its easier on walks when im letting him off, i find. he really doesnt mind.

but he doesnt always use the prong collar, what about the ones that are in actual collars that he can get to walk nicely??? i think some people way over react to him but if thats how they feel then fine its no one elses business.

that illusion collar isnt worse!!! it just keep the lead at the top of the neck, i dont see a problem but i know a lot of others do.

some of the things i definatly agree with is that dogs are pack animals and need a 'leader' and strict rules and boundaries, imo i think it helps them to be more relaxed and not like they have a job sort of thing.

i dont know, maybe im talking crap but its just from what i know and have read and seen ect... i havnt trained aggressive dogs, just my soppy airedale puppy which has actually gone quite well so far lol!!!

The main problem is the placement of the collar.
with your own hands you can feel the difference if something is placed lower down your neck or really high under your jaw and behind your ears.
Then imagine that tightening....
Not something I want to do to my dogs.

yeah but it doesnt hurt!!! i dont see the problem if it isnt causing the dog pain. Arthurs slip lead goes just above his collar, so not quite as high as him but close, if it was hurting him i think i would know. plus they release wen the dog doesnt pull so more comfortable.