and really what is the point ...if you want a dog that looks like a wolf there are plenty out there....

So you are talking first generation then, that being the result of a pure wolf bred to a domestic dog.

As I said earlier, pure wolves and f1/f2 crosses require a dangerous wild animals licence to own them legally, and its not as simple as you pay your money, (which depending on where you live, could range from less than £100 to upwards of £1000 per licence), you get your licence, there is imo enough hoops to jump through, to make it pretty idiot proof. From what I understand of the procedure the enclosure has to be built and inspected, and the person's knowledge of their chosen species assessed before your granted one.

So, you weren't impressed by chinchilla vs wolfdog, but how about a bite from a wolfdog, vs a bite from say a black mamba. Both bites can cause a lot of damage though in different ways, and whilst a bite from a wolfdog is only lethal if it is in the wrong/right place, the venom from a mamba if left untreated is a certain death sentence regardless of where it was injected. Funnily enough as far as I'm aware no one has died in this country as of yet as a result of being bitten by their pet rattler/cobra/mamba etc, and believe me, there're far more people that have dwal's for venomous snakes then there are people who own wolves, f1/f2 wolfdogs, or lower content animals.

Yes, wolfdogs esp the higher content ones, aren't suitable for a lot of people, but then niether are gsds, labs or bloodhounds, and all of them in the wrong hands could end up seriously injuring someone or killing them.

As for breeds like the Czech and Saarloos, the Czech was created in 1955 by the Czechoslovakian military as a border guard and the saarloos was created in the 1920s/30s with the aim of improving the health of the gsd and as a working breed however, today the saarloos is quite unsuitable for working, and is bred as a companion only. These are breeds of dog, domestic dog, they were bred with a purpose in mind, not any random dog bred with any random wolf for the one aim of making money, they are no more unpredictable than any other individual within any other breed.

As I've said many times on this forum I'd love a Czech wolfdog one day, and it both angers and saddens me to see how such a new breed to this country has been abused, by those who should be promoting the responsible breeding and ownership of them.

No they wouldn't. We spoke recently to someone who was near the beginning of the development of the CSV (he is Eastern European). His take was that they were useless for any kind of attack work---they just don't want to do it. He knew one that they managed to make aggressive by basically ill treating it. The rest were passive regardless of what was done to them.

I am sure that the crossing which is going on will produce aggressive dogs in the same way that other breeds and mongrols can be aggressive. So stop all breeding from any dog which might get big enough to damage someone.

rune

my dog is big enough to damage someone but as a responsible owner i put in the hard work of training and socialising at the beginning and continue to do so...thank you for the information about the wolf dogs and the fact that not just anyone can own them ....that was my issue....irresponsible owners with these dogs which do have a wildness in them....im not even against the breed itself...i like wolves but not in our society with the people in our society that could and would exploit the "wolf" in the dog.
Thank you for all the comments it has been a good debate

csv's will only attack in 'real' situations and know the difference between that and simulated ones
.. they much prefer scent and water work tho, there are search and rescue csv's and trained cadaver dogs too

I have no issue with it.

But my concern is they are high drive high energy K9s (see how easy is that). Ime many high drive k9 have awlful lives because the owner is unable to satisfy there needs.

Adam

So basically you didn't want to discuss any benefits they might have for the dog world, you just wanted to cause an argument about the people who may or may not own one of these?

i didnt want to cause an arguement at all, i personally dont see the benefits to the dog world..there isnt much that the hundreds of breeds already about cant do....but am not against the breed i quite like it ...but again im a responsible dog owner...these dogs shouldnt be out there for just anyone to own ...they will get misused and become another dangerous dog...then people will suffer the consequences and so will the dog ...shall we give them to people who will misuse them and wait for them to be put to sleep ....my point is why....

The same reason it happens with any other dog that can been seen as 'hard' look at the staffies, the people trying to breed pitt type dogs again, the rotts, the dobes and the GSD. All of these breeds have been at some point misused by the 'hard man' who doesn't want a dog, just a status symbol. But there are also good and kind owners of ALL of these breeds that do the best for their dogs and make sure that their dogs are happy, healthy, well socialised and not a danger to any dog or human. Why would it be different for hybrid types. There will always be bad owners, but likewise there will always be good ones too.

There are a good few that so shcutzhund, thats artificial, they do that ok, even though it isnt "real"