Of topic bit would gladly PM you but I feel you are not interested without an audience

well PM me then

I really dont need an audience

Happier??? Not sure..

I know they are safe..not running in front of cars getting killed or shot by farmers etc..
They get off lead exercise in my enclosed garden and my enclosed workplace..
They get worked on a scooter or rig, they get cuddles on the couch, they get fed food they like...

Would letting them run about in an unsafe environment make them happier?? Hell maybe it would..and the last thing they think about before they get hit by a bus would be what?? Where's the sheep?

you said you never let them off the lead

is there no place you can get to to exercise them off lead?

Nickboy do you really need to be quite so rude ? I note from some of your posts you make a habit of it * .
Yes I have read all the thread have you?
Sally didn't mearly answer the originally question but went on to elaborate her views on ecollars as I am sure you will know if you took the trouble to read the whole thread.
Sally also seems to put up obstacles to everyones suggestions about methods to prevent chasing animals.

Again if you have taken the trouble to read the whole thread you will note a couple of people have questioned why Sally is continuing with this argument. Either her dog is cured of chasing animals with the use of the collar which she is championing here or it isn't.

(*See your replies in the rescue section thread. )

i have read the whole thread - been reading every post from the start. I think Sallys ellaborations come across as a combination of trying to explain herself and defend her interpretations, I dont think shes tried to put anyone in their place, just comes across someone trying to defend herself against a number of people on this thread.
She said she used it once and I understand her frustrations at repeatedly trying to explain that it was on someones advice ( before your other thread ) and that she beleived it had provided results. I think shes conducted herself quite well on this thread as all the emotive people have tried to create all sorts of unfair images of her and the consequences of her actions.

As for being nasty, dont confuse that with being able to think for myself and disagree with you or the tone of your thread input.

Ive seen much nastier things said on these threads than anything ive said

you know stuff like ' people with degenerative diseases shouldnt breed dogs' ....

or ' people who got their dog from a freead arent fit to keep them'

thats much nastier than telling someone to have a biscuit - wouldnt you agree?

Nickyboy if you have concerns with any posts being 'nasty' please use the report post button .

No I am not confusing anything , neither am I miss quoting anything or trying to associate someone with statements they did not make as I think you are trying to do here. You better check again I have never ever mentioned degerative diseases on any of the forums.
Also please stay on topic.

dont need to tell tales or report people

youre right, you said the other silly quote - which i deemed as being nasty and insulting to anyone who got their first dog that way.

The degenerative comment was made by someone else on this thread who likes to give her opinion as much as I do, did you think it was nasty when you read it - it was involved on a thread you were participating on and made your own nasty comment on above?

or is nasty just when i pull you up on something when trying to stick up for someone on a thread ?

I AM trying all the other methods of training that have been suggested to me (apart from going to the training centre that I can't afford). I DO keep my dog on a lead anywhere near livestock. So far, none of the other methods have shown anything like the success of the one e-collar session I had.

I know the tree blowing over scenario was extreme - but anything COULD happen - I could fall over while out on a walk and lose the lead - Some spiteful eejit could get into my garden and set my dogs loose (as happened recently to someone I know). I want to be prepared just in case something happens that ends up with my dog being loose. I am doing all I can to make sure that he DOESN'T, but if he WERE to get loose, I'd prefer to have the off-lead control I need to ensure his safety.

In my mind, the e-collar DID work - no it hasn't solved the problem, but I don't think ANY method would totally solve the problem in one 20 minute session. It's interesting to note here that often the same people who say I should be trying other methods and giving them more time (which I AM), are the same ones who say the e-collar obviously doesn't work even though I only tried it once for 20 minutes!!

I DID research my breed before buying. I know MANY NI owners whose dogs have no problems around livestock. Indeed Spike only developed the problem after he had learnt the thrill of the chase - before that he was fine OFF-LEAD and NEAR livestock. He has never shown aggression to livestock (even when he had a sheep cornered) and I believe his behaviour has become a compulsive obsession.

I have asked my local farmer if he'd be willing to let me train Spike near livestock or if he knew of anyone else who would and had a negative response. On looking further afield, the only farmer I could find who was willing, was the one who would let me try with the e-collar.

I am not cowardly. I am not cruel. I am not stupid. I would not do anything that I believe would hurt my dogs or make them fearful. I am trying to weigh up the risks of my dog becoming loose, against effective methods of training him to respond to me while he is off lead and near livestock. I believe it is in Spike's best interest for me to HAVE that control, if I can achieve it.

I am trying everything I can to achieve this and so far the e-collar has shown the best results. I am satisfied that the session had a POSITIVE effect on my dog and my control over him. Before trying the e-collar, I was dead against them and I went along to the session telling the trainer that I was very doubtful that I would actually use one and that there was NO WAY I would let it anywhere near Spike unless I was satisfied first that it would not hurt him, or make him fearful.

Any 'eleborations' I have made about my own experience with the e-collar and trying to train Spike out of livestock chasing, have been made in response to questions put to me here, while I have been trying to defend my opinion that in SOME circumstances, an e-collar is NOT as bad as some instances of smacking.

Nickyboy, yet again you have misquoted one of my post.

I am happy to debate with most people but not someone who swears at me, is rude and repeatedly misquotes my posts.
In future if you refer to any of my post do not expect a response it will be ignored.