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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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19-09-2007, 11:46 PM
Originally Posted by Malady 
:smt043 Brilliant
and I disagree about Mr Milan :smt019 (the cheeky lil' Mexicano) I think he has the right attitude for understanding the needs of dominant dogs :smt016
I only ever throw thing at the dogs in self defence,,,lol,
Im gona stick my neck out here and say yes I do throw, not often but I do. Not to hit but if It does it does, I did it the other night with Vinnie, we were at beecraigs with some of the other members of the training club, just as we were heading back to the car as we have to pass a bit were the fence is open and cars can come flying by on a tight corner, I had decided to call him and Kaos to heal, I didnt want to put him back on lead but just get him close enough to make sure he wouldnt wander out on to the road, its not a busy road dont think I have seen a car on it yet but when you get them they come fast, So called the pair of them, Kaos was back like a flash vinnie was just a bit ahead of me, but threw me a rubber ear,,,so called again,,,,nowt though he heard me so I scunched up my lead and lobbed it at him, I threw it so it would land at the back of his legs,,not hitting but he new it was there if you know what I mean,,, as it landed and he whirled round to see what it was I called his name,,, he looked at the lead looked at me and though oh I see,,,, picked the lead up and toddled back to me,,,no harm done, but it could save his life if a car had been coming,
I have to say,,,, having owned large so called dominat breeds, wee mr milan does have the right attitude needed to be in charge, I think most of his training skills are based apon this though and could be to in your face for other dogs, I dont agree with everything I have seen him do, but I do think he has big dog savy,,,not that I have seen that much of him, but I have had to adapt a diff way of doing things for evey dog I meet so mabey he should too,,,after all he is earning far more than me,,,,lol
Im gona stick my neck out here and say yes I do throw, not often but I do. Not to hit but if It does it does, I did it the other night with Vinnie, we were at beecraigs with some of the other members of the training club, just as we were heading back to the car as we have to pass a bit were the fence is open and cars can come flying by on a tight corner, I had decided to call him and Kaos to heal, I didnt want to put him back on lead but just get him close enough to make sure he wouldnt wander out on to the road, its not a busy road dont think I have seen a car on it yet but when you get them they come fast, So called the pair of them, Kaos was back like a flash vinnie was just a bit ahead of me, but threw me a rubber ear,,,so called again,,,,nowt though he heard me so I scunched up my lead and lobbed it at him, I threw it so it would land at the back of his legs,,not hitting but he new it was there if you know what I mean,,, as it landed and he whirled round to see what it was I called his name,,, he looked at the lead looked at me and though oh I see,,,, picked the lead up and toddled back to me,,,no harm done, but it could save his life if a car had been coming,
I have to say,,,, having owned large so called dominat breeds, wee mr milan does have the right attitude needed to be in charge, I think most of his training skills are based apon this though and could be to in your face for other dogs, I dont agree with everything I have seen him do, but I do think he has big dog savy,,,not that I have seen that much of him, but I have had to adapt a diff way of doing things for evey dog I meet so mabey he should too,,,after all he is earning far more than me,,,,lol
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Location: Essex UK
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 6,949
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20-09-2007, 06:54 AM
I just imagine what my dogs would be like with those methods. Milo my JRT is a happy sociable chap with no recall whatsoever so he gets exercised on an extending lead (which he still won't recall on
). if I was to throw things at him I am sure he would never trust me again and become far from his happy sociable self, and Shady my big girly suffers nervous aggression with other dogs and traffic. I am taking things very slowly with her and time and patience and keeping her in her comfort zone is really paying off, although we still have a very long way to go. If I started throwing things at her she would go to pieces and end up worse than she was in the beginning.
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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20-09-2007, 11:27 AM
I should have added,,, I dont throw things to hit the dog more to get attention, I dont do it if the dog is facing me, but if its backs to me, I need its attention quickly, dogs is kidding on its deaf,,,, if something lands near the back of it, they will always turn to see what it is, thus you get attention, but I have to add none of my lot have a nervy bone in there body,,, A nervy dog may well not turn and look but take off for the hills, so not a great idea for all dogs, but it has worked for me, agian its not something you should have to do day in day out, its a quick fix in a situation where you need to gain control quickly, if your having to use it all the time then really you should have a think about how effective your training has NOT been,,,, Vinnies young so once in a blue is not an issue but if I had to do it twice in one week I would be questioning my training,,,,lol
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Location: uk
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,302
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20-09-2007, 11:34 AM
Needless to say I never went back, he was very harsh and his own two dogs (GSP and ESS) seem very nervy... I believe in positive training, yes I do raise my voice, but Jamie has a great ability to turn off, typical English setter!
After yesterday when he came back after my accident, I know the recall is there, but I am certainly not going to throw something at him, to do this!!
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Location: grangemouth for the moment
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 14,890
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20-09-2007, 11:50 AM
Sadly he sounds like so many so called dog trainers on the go, bet he was pricey too,.
I wouldnt use this as a way of solving a problem with recall, its just not the way to go,,, for me its a once in a very blue moon quick attention grabber, I would think to hit the dog with a boot would cause fear, even in the rotts, a dog that learns through fear is unrealiable, unhappy, unpredictable, its prob worse than the dog who does not have training at all, I see so many trainers working from one book the old school book, one size fits all attitude,, its sad these people are out there training dogs, people who dont know any better think they will do the right thing by training there new dog, they often have nothing to compare a trainer to so trust what they are told, I myself did this with my first dog, It cost me a life time living with a nutter of a collie, I learned my lesson the hard way,
I use everything possible to get a recall from dogs I train, I use loads of food, toys, the squeeky from the toys the rotts kill are great for keeping in your pocket, its tiny, but if you blow through it you get the same noise as a squeeky toy coming from your gob,,, I use lazer pens. some dogs will follow, chase the light, so if you need the dog back beside you you just guide it back,,,with the lazer,, there is thousands of things you can do before resorting to boot chucking,,, its a bit cave man when you think about it,
I wouldnt use this as a way of solving a problem with recall, its just not the way to go,,, for me its a once in a very blue moon quick attention grabber, I would think to hit the dog with a boot would cause fear, even in the rotts, a dog that learns through fear is unrealiable, unhappy, unpredictable, its prob worse than the dog who does not have training at all, I see so many trainers working from one book the old school book, one size fits all attitude,, its sad these people are out there training dogs, people who dont know any better think they will do the right thing by training there new dog, they often have nothing to compare a trainer to so trust what they are told, I myself did this with my first dog, It cost me a life time living with a nutter of a collie, I learned my lesson the hard way,
I use everything possible to get a recall from dogs I train, I use loads of food, toys, the squeeky from the toys the rotts kill are great for keeping in your pocket, its tiny, but if you blow through it you get the same noise as a squeeky toy coming from your gob,,, I use lazer pens. some dogs will follow, chase the light, so if you need the dog back beside you you just guide it back,,,with the lazer,, there is thousands of things you can do before resorting to boot chucking,,, its a bit cave man when you think about it,
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Location: Lancashire
Joined: Apr 2004
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20-09-2007, 12:21 PM
Helen
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Location: Sheffield
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,856
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25-09-2007, 12:05 PM
CM is vile imo. No - I've never cuddled my dogs when upset, I have had to hold Eddy to stop him getting to another dog that was nipping in and out of his legs
and even that was enough to reinforce the growling, but I never cuddle them when they're hurt or upset. I tend to say 'oh well! never mind - come on!' Yes - a dog can sense when someone is fearful/stressed - he's got that bit right.
I've seen Cesar Millan bitten on several occassions in instances where bites weren't necessary so served only to push the dog past her bite threshold and worsen the problem.
Did you know he also got a woman bitten because of his training advice?
One dog was killed at his training school by being forced to run on a treadmill wearing a choke chain - the only reason he wasn't successfully sued was that he wasn't present - surely he should be and if not, his employees should be trained?!
I've seen an excitable dog go from barking and running to the door, tripping the owners up when the doorbell went, to hiding in a corner quivering when someone rang the doorbell.
I was very kindly given a whole set of his DVDs and have to syke myself upto watch them in the name of 'study' because watching him actually makes me feel sick.
If you watch his programme carefully, the dog is not such a big problem. Watch for camera angles, dramatic music and narration and you may see what I see - a misbehaving dog - easily treatable, in most cases - made to look far worse because of the dramatic way the programme is filmed. When he's finished 'working' on the dog, and the dog is 'transformed' you will notice that the music and camera angles calm down rather a lot.
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Location: East Midlands, UK
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,775
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28-12-2007, 06:03 PM
This method, along with Cesar Millan's more conventional approach of calm assertive energy, were the ONLY training methods that worked with the stubborn old git!
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Location: Nottingham
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4,477
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28-12-2007, 06:31 PM
The dog has no phobia about the lead even though I used it as a punishment. In fact, it's used largely as a tug toy nowadays and Jed will actually try and instigate a game of tug with it.
I dont throw anything at the pup, he's pretty fearless and everything goes over his head so it has no effect anyway.
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