Karen Overall is a vet so in a good position to make educated guestimates about the physiology of the brain and how it works

Karen Overall is not only a vet but a highly qualified behavioural scientist. Her knowledge of physiology & how the brain works has come from many years of study & the references at the end of her paper are there to show exactly where she got her information from.

Funnily enough, in my studies of the physiology of behaviour, I've learned a lot about the cellular basis of learning, long term potentiation, how memories are formed, the effects of chronic stress on physical health etc. I learned about this from lots of scientists who have conducted peer-reviewed, published research on lots of species not just dogs. And guess what ~ Karen Overall says exactly what all these other scientists have concluded! Fortunately they are right, because this knowledge is now used for operations on the human brain, for drugs & medication to help alleviate potentially life-threatening conditions ~ heaven help us all if they were relying on "guesstimates"

Adam ~ yes the hippocampus plays a huge part in laying down memories, in the formation of fears & phobias & the amygdala also plays a huge part in fear-learning, flight/fight survival behaviours. That's not "adlibbing" as you call it ~ it's hard scientific fact!!! Yet again you demonstrate your complete ignorance of matters pertaining to dog behaviour & yet you have the nerve to criticise a world-famous & highly respected scientist

Agree with this Wilbar, I don't think a person can just chuck out words like "ad libbing" over this sort of article!

Wys
x

Lets weigh this up

On one side we have a qualified vet who has also studied behavioural science and on the other we have a 'person' who has possibly done a dumbed down degree course and has little experience in anything much up to and including what he refers to as 'dog training'........

Who to go with?

No brainer really.

rune

I think the research behind the article speaks for itself, and I think Adam needs to get with the program. You can find anyone saying anything on the internet, the fact that this article is PUBLISHED IN A SCIENTIFIC JOURNAL speaks very highly. The research is there, open to all that want to check into it.

What I take away from this, is that I need to get my dogs off the collars, and into harnesses. Though I do not use any of the devices pointed out in this, I do use Martingale type collars... no longer.

nooooooooooooooooooo.....

havent had time to read the article yet.....but that's an interesting consequence for what you have read....funny enough, i was discussing the ethics of martingales/half checks (chokes)/slip leads on the prong collar thread recently....

It was interesting that some research concluded that dogs walked on tight collars can cause all sorts of eye deformities and diseases, through pressure on the jugular vein (and something else that I cant remember off-hand.... I'll have to go back and look) not to mention damage caused to the throat, neck and spine.

I think Oliver is going to be getting a front clip balance harness... which I was looking into before. Scout and Zoe dont pull or lunge, and Mouse and Boo... well a bit small for anything but step-in harnesses, which both of them can reach to chew through.

It's really hard to completely throw away all the "old ways" I'm doing well, but still have a ways to go...

I understand what you`re saying - but I think you`re blaming the tool rather than the way it is used. Anyone who has ridden a horse knows how you can ruin one if you are insensitive with the reins. A hard-mouthed horse is a horrible ride. In the same way a ham-fisted rider can spoil a horse, a `yank and shout` merchant can misuse a collar.
That`s why you train a dog to walk with you, you don`t rely on a piece of kit.

Very true. I have never recommended "tools" for training, as good ol' training is all the tool that should be required (well, except a clicker), I use the martingales on all my dogs, as 3 out of 5 have been known to pull out of a regular collar (and one is dangerous!), not as a training device. Besides, I very much like the collars. (wont break coat, machine washable etc.)

That being said, I do think, after reading this (and alot of other stuff, this just made me decide, other than waffle) that my reactive dog, who lunges at things he's scared of, should be on a harness, so we (Ollie and I) dont do any damage to his neck/spine/throat/eyes.