There are many folk here with lot more experience n knowledge of all different dogs n situations. Sorry if talking rubbish but do dogs need more time, lot more time and little steps. Getting them familiar with the surroundings, folk,other dogs, do we unintentionally(sp) try rush things(no offense to anyone). A lot of the dogs folk rehome n take on must have been through unimaginable trauma n is why many many end up back in rescue. Folk however well meaning don't realise but if no one tried then many dogs wouldn't find good homes.

I think im being dim tonight
If I had taken a step back I would be dragging her backwards - she would have never turned towards me - and at that point she would have been on her hind legs anyways, I dont understand how I could get any slack in the lead - she is so quick and only focused on the thing ahead
(now I have taught a positive interuptor and keep her below total meltdown I just get her to pay attention to me - and I am even able to step infront of her - but in the begining I just didnt exist)

You have to sort of "throw it"
There would be a moment of tension as you stepped
back.

Its too hard to explain, you have to see!!!!

Every single dog i do it with, the owners are amazed tthat they dont just pull forward,

i wounldnt worry, if what you are doing works for you.

In the days when I had my ooba reactive and proactive GSD it wasn't common to analyse what one did with a dog---you either threw it around as per training class advice or got on with it.

The throwing around didn't work.

I did agility with her and took her to shows---never forget the first one. It was Lincoln and the only plus was that she was so busy watching all the collies whizz around and trying to get them that she didn't go for any people!

In the end she was muzzled on the way out to the excercise area---to get past caravans with groups of barking dogs in--- and carried a ball on the way back, later the ball was a kong which she preferred----probably 'cause it was squishy.

Sometimes life gets in the way of training and sometimes the dog has to just do things and the situations have to got through and managed.

Having a baby is a huge change of life style and priorities. I'd suggest they stop worrying about it, stop the dog winding up as far as possible and use a toy. Really teach her to want that toy. It isn't instant---it took She Ra ages and she still couldn't manage it on the way out.

Having said that I was walking 5 dogs so possibly had she been alone I could have done it both ways.

Just thoughts

rune

Do you mean that you create a barrier (with the moment of tension) then release the dog so nothing is holding it back?

Thereby creating an invisible barrier to the dog?
Dog cannot move forward, but is not being held back = confused dog who turns to its owner?
Dogs who have been used to a constant tension often get confused by the loose lead, as long as your timing can catch that confusion when they turn back it can work very well

I always say to people the hardest part about loose lead walking is the loose bit. So many people get into the habit of holding the dog in position, so the dog just learns to take up any slack when the owner loosens the lead.

People generally find it SO hard to 'go with the dog' to keep the lead loose, I remove leads from people often in puppy class to show people that they can control their pup without holding them in place. (I give them the lead back when they feel more confident).

I'm not a 'wise one' so hope it's OK to answer, I have a highly reactive dog who does some of the same things as this GSD.

Actually I agree with Adam!

His approach sounds similar to what my trainer has taught me to do. It works.

A gentle - or even firm if needed - tug on the lead to pre empt the dog lunging/jumping, paired with a firm verbal correction and reminder to 'heel'.

I've seen it work wonders with my dog but it does take time.

Once again, apologies for posting as am not very experienced, just wanted to try and help if at all possible.

Not a "wise one", but my thoughts are:

I'd avoid going anywhere near the barking staffie on the corner too, for the same reasons as others have said, i.e. the more the behaviour is practiced & rehearsed, the more automatic it becomes & the more likely to be the default setting in future.

Also, bear in mind the linked associations that the dog will have made already (second-order conditioning) between going out for a walk/training session & the barking staffie. From the info you've given it seems highly likely that the associations will be linked all the way back to whatever the handlers do that precedes the walk, e.g. putting on coat, the time of day, getting the baby ready, etc etc. These factors will all signal to the dog that the walk (& hence going past the barking staffie) are all about to start. If you think about the physiology of this ~ the dog is now already in a heightened state of arousal, its body preparing for flight/fight etc, with arenaline etc coursing through it's body, ready to react to the things it knows it will encounter & they've not even left the house yet!

By the time they actually get to the barking staffie, the dog's physiological arousal will be soooo high, it's unlikely it will have a cat's chance in hell of not reacting! And then standing there waiting for an instant of calm so they can "reward" the dog by continuing the walk, is unlikely to have the desired effect, because the dog is too hyped up, with full up short term memory slots, to actually register & learn from what the handler thinks he/she is teaching the dog. It's more likely to be having a brief reprise from barking, or having a tight lead, rather than reaxing enough to pay attention to the handler & actually Learn what it wanted.

The more the dog's neural pathways for "aroused" behaviour are used, the more sensitised they become & the more llikely these pathways will be the default setting in other scenarios. So even other small connections/associations with enough similarities to going for a walk will trigger the same physiological response & the dog will start to be reactive in other situations. This is a well-researched topic ~ longterm potentiation & associative longterm potentiation & is the basis of how our brains work & how we learn anything.

So to start to change things personally I would start from scratch & try to concentrate on more calming activities, more static exercises & any other activities that reduce physiological arousal but increase a calm, relaxed & attentive state. In other words try to increase the sensitisation of the neural pathways underlying a calm, relaxed emotional state.

It's difficult to be more precise & practical without knowing more about the handler's circumstances & what they can or can't do with the dog. For instance is it possible to put the dog straight in a car & drive it somewhere else for a while so they could avoid the staffie & the other things connected with leaving the house on foot?

I would also perhaps concentrate on training (clicker training?) but in places & at times totally different to what they've been doing so far. The Relaxation Protocol devised by the Pennsylvania Vet School is good for this & seems very similar to another earlier post on using a discriminative stimulus like a mat so the dog comes to associate calm relaxed behaviour with the mat. Then use the discriminative stimulus associated with a calm relaxed conditioned response to build associations with other things, e.g. the sight of dogs or people at a distance.

I sometimes feel that the focus is too much on the training & physical behaviour side of things with reactive dogs like this & perhaps more emphasis should be given to the emotional & cognitive state of the animal. Perhaps we humans are too "conditioned" to think along the lines of the dog must be taught to walk on a loose lead & go down the tried & trusted methods for loose lead walking but then forget about the bigger picture of what the dog is like as a whole. Just my thoughts

Completely fab post Wilbar

I am guessing these peeps may not have a car, and also that they have to go past the staffie to get anywhere - I think KW said this somewhere on this thread in fact. So it makes it pretty hard to calm the dog.

I wonder if it may be possible to do lots and lots of classical conditioning - maybe with the main meal/s - starting very early on in the sequence...

Not an easy nut to crack

Wys
x

Thank Wys

Yes, maybe starting at the very beginning & doing CC in the house & garden to build up the calm emotional state would help. But I suspect that all the time the dog is still walked past the staffie, it will be difficult to get over that stage as the LTP associated with walks etc will still be strong. But trying to minimise the arousal with the other associated things that they can control, e.g. change time of walks, put coat & lead in a new place, change the routine as much as possible etc & change the emotional response to these via CC to calm response, could reduce the arousal levels by the time they reach the staffie.

And if there's NO way to avoid the staffie then minimise the time near the staffie, don't try to do anything like wait around the staffie's house, cross the road beforehand, use food or toys as distractions on the approach to the staffie to distract ~ all may help?

Haven't read all responses, forgive any repetition or redundant suggestions, have no time so very intial thoughts:

Priority to create a generally more "chilled" dog on a daily basis .. working away from triggers.

1. Three weeks of not putting the dog in the situation so drive everywhere and give off lead exercise.

2. RegularTtouch sessions to increase generally calmer disposition.

3. lots and lots of problem solving actvities that have no connection to the circumstances that make the dog "fizzy" ... ie scent work exercises, self feeding with usual actvitiy toys .. actvities designed to slow the dog anad teach it to be more deliberate in it's approach to everything.

4.discovering dog's critical distance for reactiveness ... if the dogs desire to meet n greet is so high ..then working out the distance, stepping back from that and introducing parrallel play, work, clicker exercises with both dogs (maybe)