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The dog: 2 yr small GSD with some collie mixed in somewhere. Bought up with a drug addict/mental paitent from pup, allowed to roam and stray around Epping Forest. Picked up by dog warden several times.
Grew up learning to charge up to people and dogs over- excitedly and without controls or manners.

Rehomed via rescue to a couple with dog training experience, 7 months ago.
Main issue worked on is lead frustration, gobs, screams, lunges when sees other dogs and she cannot run up to to them. However, the force and intensity of this has lessened a little over time

Generally wired personality, needs a good run every day to settle and relax
Great in the home, does obsess and stalk cat collie style.
Learnt to leave one cat be, as this cat is confident, and they cuddle up.
The other cat less confident, so still gets eye stalked, but this is controlled.
Great with people.
Learnt downs, stays, sits, etc very well, toy and treat trained.
Clicker and target stick trained as well.
Can be distracted from other dogs via prey drive ragging training using rubber rings OR the treat scatter/sniff game.
However, this ONLYy works in the fields at a distance, but NOT in the street.

Situation: in the woods, when lead goes tight, female handler stops and waits until dog steps back in and offers eye contact, then treats or clicks/treats or praises, then moves on.
The woods have no distractions at all.

Female handler wishes to replicate this when walking thru town or in fields when dogs are seen.
As female handler is pregnant and wishes to walk dog with pram without pulling.
If dog sees another and is highly reactive, female handler stands still until dog stops gobbing, then slackens the lead, then offers eye contact, at which point handler moves forward.
In one situatuon this occurs outside someone's house, where a staffy is standing behind a gate.
This means female handler will stand in same spot for quite some time. Householder will come out of house to see what's going on.
This house is on the corner of the street where dog lives, and must be passed to leave street. This corner also lets dog see the high street. Dog always barked at this point anyway, due to excitment, but since staffy recently moved in, now has added trigger of assuming the staffy will be behind the gate as well.

Female handler feels that the priority is the dog doesnt get the reward of moving forward until lead is slack, as happens in the woods.

Male handler would walk away from the reactive situation pretty quickly, as he feels that the dog should be non rewarded for the barking etc.
Thus the change direction technique.
He also feels that the enthisis shouldnt be on the non pulling or eye contact at this stage, but should be training out the reactivity. Occasionally, dog also gobs at people as well, if she cant run up and say hello.
So he feels walking away also kills that adrenaline fuelled mindset and brings dog back to calmness for the other goals of no pull/eye contact training.

If male handler is introducing dog to new dog and she gobs, they walk together on long lines together and every time she kicks off he sprints off at full pelt to knacker dog, he keeps doing this until she approaches nicely. At which stage they can mix ok.

Dog loves other dogs and is fine off lead and plays in a bolshie shepherd way with several regular dogs per week, but can be easily called off if too rough OR for the purposes of undergoing any form of training.

Both handlers wish to be able to take dog to obedience and agility classes in time.

Male handler feels they need to decide what the priroties are, and says the female handler is trying to achieve the following:

1. No barking, followed by
2. Loose lead, followed by
3. eye contact.

So he feels its too much for dog and highy pregnant handler and is building up frustration bubble for both of them, especially if you throw into the pot the reactions of other people expressing worry.

And he feels they should just work on the reactivity for now and deal with the rest later

But female handler states she is trying to work thru the frustration bubble to teach the dog the concept of impulse (self) control. Which female handler states she achieves in the woods. Male handler replies the criteria is different, as thats a controlled environment without people or dogs

Hello, oh wise ones, please give your views.

What would be your priority in this situation, and what would you do and why?

Many thanks

Forgive me if I reply (not being a Wise One but having experience with reactive shepherds )

I think the dog is not being trained but managed.
Stopping and waiting does not help IMO. All that is happening is that the dog is learning to keep threats at bay for longer periods. The behaviour is being reinforced each time - because it works.
Then the dog, having successfully told the threat to beggar off, steps back the handler and is rewarded for a job well done.
If the handler removed to the dog from the trigger then rewarded her it would break the cycle.
I would also question the diagnosis of `lead frustration` because I`m not sure what you mean? Frustrated because she can`t flight, flee or befriend? Either way, it is behaviour you don`t want - so you remove the dog from the stress and reward calmness.

I would also question their assumptions - dogs don`t run up to people to `say hello`. Especially Shepherds.
And from what you say this is a vbitch who likes to control her own space - possibly through anxiousness, but certainly because she can.

So - priorities:
1. ask them to look at reshaping the dogs behaviour by rewarding calmness. This should be in all circumstances. Games must include an element of wind-down and control.

2. Retrain reactions round triggers with a strategy which both partners must use - of moving away from the trigger, getting control of the dog and rewarding.

3. Ask them to read a modern book on dog behaviour which tells them how dogs see the world.

Another reply from a not-wise-one.

A few things stand out as setting the dog and everybody else up to fail.

Standing outside Staffy house allowing the dog to react is just allowing the dog to practise the behaviour they don't want. Do they have to pass by so close to this house? (Drive/cross the road/distract anything to avoid this situation which is not helpful).

As the owner of a reactive dog I would suggest starting below threshold.

Click for calm behaviour with dogs/people at a distance where the dog does not react and avoid street walking until ready for it.

Also the male handler going sprinting with the dog when it gobs off could actually be reinforcing the gobbing off. When introducing to a new dog start at a distance(parallel walking) clicking for any glances at the other dog or focus on handler and a loose leash. Slowly decrease the distance clicking for any calm or desirable behaviours.

Out of those three things id want them the other way around.

OK... can you expand on that for yet another Unwise One?

actually id want, loose lead, eye contact, then work on barking.

they are pretty clued into all that already

many thanks for your feedback

btw, i forgot to say the dog lives with a male dog as well. no issues

good idea

thanks for your feedback oh wise one

does this mean you would stand their until you have the loose lead, eye contact, and no barking?

No, it would take time.

Id teach the eye contact first.With no distractions.

When a dogs reacts/pulls i "throw" the lead (i hold the leadbut throw all contact away) if the dog puls forward i step back & throw the lead again.

The dog gets no "back up from me"by having tension on lead.
"you are on your on son"


As soon as the dog relaxs i then ask for eye contact, Name response, id then use alot of food on the ground along with more name response.

The barking will minimalise itself.

I might teach a "leave it" or " quiet" if barking continues

Works for me , big time!